Bryan Kinsley

Evan: Okay gentlemen you are rolling.

John: Okay it's about 2:00 o'clock on Friday July 22nd 2016, I'm John Pettigrew with Evan Reibsome and Bryan Kinsely.

Bryan: Yes sir.

John: Thanks very much for joining us for this interview for the Veterans Empathy Project, I'd like to talk about the arc of your military service and perhaps go into a few larger questions. As to what it's meant to you, lessons learned, or any kind of yeah points that you'd like to underline, one of the purposes of the whole website is to, one just create better information. More information better understanding among civilians especially young people who may be considering joining the military, and hoping that they'll make an informed 1:00decision, one way or the other. Alright when and where were you born Bryan?

Bryan: I was born in Williamsport Pennsylvania, in 1978.

John: And did you grow up in Williamsport? Graduate from Williamsport high school or?

Bryan: Little satellite community, I know my brother's already been through the interview process with this. But we were about the same I grew up mainly in Montoursville which is just a little bit east of Williamsport, graduated there in '96 and so it's all Williamsport but there's these little towns right around it.

John: It's a big question, but what comes to mind from your childhood in growing up in the Williamsport area? In terms of yeah fun memories or high school? What just in free association, anything that comes to mind?

Bryan: Very tight knit family. When I think about growing up, I guess there's always sports there was always the drama of school that you were going through. But somehow with our family it was a big influence in always being together, playing music into the late hours. My grandparents both played, uncles that would play, friends that would come over. So on any given Friday night there may be this hodgepodge band with an upright base to guitars, mandolins, banjos and I remember those things a lot when I think of my childhood.

John: So a kind of folk music or country music?

Bryan: A lot of Bluegrass, country a strong emphasis there. My grandfather having taught himself to play and then teaching everybody else I think in the family. So it was always just a good time.

John: Do you play the guitar?

Bryan: I do not, dabble at best. I don't think I have the patience, I have two daughters and they take up a lot of my time and it's a fun 3:00thing but with them and the sports that they do, or any of their activities. Sometimes we, I put myself on the back burner to do that.

John: What was high school like specifically? Were you active in different sports or any activities?

Bryan: I coming up into high school until I hit 16 a couple sports I think track was in there. I tried football, I was such a small kid and I didn't really have the discipline at the time. And but once I found out at 16 I could get hired somewhere and make money I enjoyed doing that. So I ended up by the time I graduated two years later I was keeping two jobs plus going to school, and these jobs were pretty simple jobs. But they were money and I enjoyed it, it was a good time.

John: So you graduated in June of '96, and when did you enlist in the service?

Bryan: My Uncle actually had pretty much recruited me, prior to me ever getting out of high school. So I had everything lined up, I had a recruiter and he was a recruiter earlier on maybe two years prior to this and had moved on in his. But he had brought home all the literature and talked to me about it and it was something I had wanted to do from an early age. And so I was, I actually entered Boot Camp two days after I graduated high school so that would have been June 10th I believe, I joined the Marine Corps.

John: So to be specific, it is the Marine Corps.

Bryan: Yes sir.

John: Were the Marines really specified as perhaps the service to join by your uncle or other relatives? Was that part of the way you 5:00started considering military service, were those two things closely linked?

Bryan: Not necessarily through any, anything they had ever done. It was just always seeing them come home and the stories they would have and their demeanor, their presence. So having not known anybody prior to that in any other military branch. I just associated, the Marine Corps was the only choice. And then having done that from five, six, and then at 16, 17 it was a constant in my life. That I'm sure there was probably an opportunity to go talk to other recruiters but by the time I had made that decision there was no chance I was gonna do anything but the Marine Corps.

John: Did a number of your family members serve in the Marine Corps, or?

Bryan: My grandfather, his brother, and both of my uncles and now there's been cousins since me. It just keeps continuing to go across that way. However I have my brother, he joined the Army which he was the first one I think to start thinking what else can I get out of it? What 6:00we can we do to better myself? Whereas I was doing it not to appease family members but almost blindly, just this is what I need to do 'cause they have done it. And maybe I associated that to becoming the type of man that they were. And he had a little bit more foresight to think, I still want to become a man, make my decisions. But do it on my terms you know and I really commend him for it.

John: In addition to family members in the Marines and said people coming home after serving do you remember any, movies or television from your childhood that may have influenced your thinking about the Marines?

Bryan: I wish I could say one way or the other. Anybody I think when I grew up, Rambo was big. You know where Schwarzenegger was huge. These things that, they weren't necessarily Marine Corps, they were just these blood and guts movies. That they went back to with The 7:00Expendables I think and it, those were always fun to watch. But I think they would be fun to watch for anybody, I don't think they really had anything to do with it. Other than enjoying watching.

John: Where did you go to Boot Camp?

Bryan: Paris Island, I was there unfortunately in the hottest time you can possibly be there, and it was, it was quite the experience.

John: Which was when? What time of year?

Bryan: June, July, and August. Yeah you really enjoy drinking water, you know it really becomes a fun thing to do.

John: Paris Island has taken on this this just almost mythical status in some ways. Tell us about Paris Island, what is it? Like I mean sort of geographically, it is an island actually in the Atlantic oc-- right off the coast of the Atlantic Ocean. I picture high humidity 8:00and swampiness and the like. What other kind of images come to mind?

Bryan: For me, and to speak about Paris Island, so I didn't stay on Paris Island once I graduated, I left. As quickly as I possibly could. However finding out how big it was after I had left I would guess it to be, as a person in Boot Camp, it was huge there was no boundaries to it. It seemed like you could go 10 miles in any direction and it just wasn't possible on that island. So smaller but yet they could do so much with the facilities they had. And somehow, it was enjoyable in a very funny way. It was good you'd see people and you'd make friends and you're doing the hardest thing you might possibly do in your life and for the decisions that I had made. And once you're acclimated to that weather to a degree, and you're pretty physically fit at 18 anyway, it becomes, can you speak in third person? Remember 9:00to do it when you're asking to use the bathroom. Things like that, so it was a good experience. It's a great island, it's a good time.

John: And so any physical challenges that you faced you obviously met successfully and you were also trained with the rifle, with an M14 at that point?

Bryan: That would have been an M16.

John: M16, excuse me.

Bryan: Yes that was again having hunted a little bit in my youth, you really didn't need to know anything. They would teach you everything, they would talk to you about your windage, your breathing, your bone structure. How you can use your skeleton to hold things up versus your muscles to get tired and they did it, seamlessly. Like you never really knew, even when you were getting messed with you were still getting 10:00taught something. So it's a machine that's well oiled. I mean I think definitely the Marine Corps knows what they're doing when they're making Marines.

John: That's a 12 week experience?

Bryan: It is.

John: And then you decide or you're appointed to a next step in your training?

Bryan: So when you, before I had actually gone to Boot Camp, you take some tests and you pick your MOS which is your Military Occupation, what you're gonna do. So I already had that picked out, people could be anything from infantry to logistics, mechanics, things that we were gonna need. So you're assigned that you know what you're going to be. Then once you graduate you get to come home for a short period of time, I think it's 10 days and then you just start your MOS. You report back to wherever that school's at, I was an 0481 which was Basic Landing Support Specialist and we got attached to helicopters. So if we had to pick up a Humvee or if we were sending food out, that would 11:00be palletized. Helicopters would come in and they'd hover above you and we'd hook up to them and then they'd fly away with it.

John: How long well first where was that training?

Bryan: That was Camp Geiger in North Carolina.

John: And how long did that take?

Bryan: That was, I apologize now about my timeline. Well I want to say it was probably six to eight weeks, I would think I was there for quite some time.

John: Were you a Marine then, did you feel like, I mean after boot camp?

Bryan: Oh absolutely when you graduate you are 10 foot tall. When you walk across that parade deck and you are hearing, one of the things I remember is hearing all of our boots like they had taught us to march so well that we were setting our heels in unison. There's 40 of us you know, or 50 of us and when you get to see your family that you haven't seen for three months and it was the first thing you've done as a young man or young woman and so you're very emotionally high and the whole time you're there it's you need to do these things if you want 12:00to become a Marine. And you've done the things that they prescribed to you to do, so yeah I, instantly I felt that way. In hindsight now, maybe being a second year Marine or a third year Marine and you see the new kid come on from boot camp we have some terms for 'em. You know but they have a lot to learn, but they're very knowledgeable they know what they need to do, they're not really, jaded in any way they haven't picked up any bad habits. They're the best they could possibly be at that point.

John: Isn't there a difference between how people in the Marines address somebody in Boot Camp as opposed to how they address somebody who is out of Boot Camp in terms of the basic you know word they use?

Bryan: If we're talking about we call 'em Boots?

John: Yep is it boots or recruit or?

Bryan: Just Boots.

John: Just Boots.

Bryan: Yeah they want to be a recruit and while they've definitely made it they've earned the right to be a Marine but their boots are still really shiny you know they haven't really put 'em anywhere so.

John: So after that training what happens?

Bryan: Well for me definitely all schools are different lengths of time is a little bit different, they would vary. I remember coming home after my MOS and some additional weapons training it was right around Christmas, I had orders to go to Okinawa for a year and so I was, you ship, you go away. If it's either east coast, west coast, or Okinawa. Those are your three choices and then you have that's another big choice you get to make is what do I want to do first? Do I want to stay here for three years or and go to Okinawa at some point towards the end of your enlistment if you're one term. Or do you want to get that out of the way you know maybe just get to Okinawa and get back to your family. So I had chose to do that, so I took off it would have been late December, early January. Of '96 and I was in Okinawa right around that time.

John: What other kinds of weapons were you trained on?

Bryan: 249, Squad Automatic Weapon, interchangeable barrel, belt fed there's the .50 Cal Tri-mount Mark-19, which is a grenade launcher. Things that again as an 18 year old kid, these are the coolest toys to play with. But you're doing it with such a level of professionalism it's not like you're just throwing rounds down range. Teaching you how to, cover your lanes with another weapon of the same types so you're overlapping but not taking over each other's area so you if you're looking down range. You have a wall of defense than you can able to, effectively take care of and different weapons would allow you to do that.

John: That's it like to shoot a Mark-19?

Bryan: It's amazing.

John: I can't imagine anything.

Bryan: It's one of the only ones that you get to see if you're shooting it without tracers, you can see what you're throwing down range. Because it usually would do it it's Butterfly Mash so it's a trigger with your thumbs and you usually do it in three round increments. But 15:00you get to hear that, that thump, thump, thump and you can see those in the air you know. It's slow enough that you get to see the trajectory of it. It's really interesting.

John: And the power of the explosion at the other end?

Bryan: Goes pretty far, you get to see it. You don't really get to feel the percussion of it or anything like that though.

John: So despite or, help me understand this. You have this specific MOS but you're a Marine Rifleman first and foremost right?

Bryan: Yes sir.

John: I mean you were trained on those weapons and you understand infantry tactics and that's your center is that right?

Bryan: it is, to a degree now obviously there's an infantry, an 0311 in the Marine Corps. These gentlemen are great at what they do, their schooling is much more than mine, so I can shoot an M16 out of Boot Camp. I can do it effectively I can break that weapon down, I know that weapon so that is always going to be mine, that's organic to me. But as you move forward now I mentioned that I got to shoot other types of 16:00weapons but really in an essence to make me aware of 'em if I had to ever use one. I would have a, useful knowledge of it but not necessarily the marksmen that they do in their training. They get better and better they're constantly using 'em. Mounting 'em in different ways, they're the ones carrying 'em, I never had to carry one they're heavy. And they break those apart, and these guys. So even though we all are Riflemen, they're professionals in their own right more so than I ever would have been.

John: So why do Marines try to decide when they want to get Okinawa out of the way? What is it about Okinawa that makes people think that way?

Bryan: No nothing, I loved Okinawa actually, I ended up staying three years there when I got there. I just fell in love with the place. However a lot of times we're 18 year old kids and I don't wanna keep saying kids 'cause they're young men I was a young man at the time, I 17:00don't wanna take that away from anybody. But usually you would have your high school girlfriend, or you'd have your mom and dad. You'd have some ties back home, and you've already left for three months maybe five months and you want to get back. And so the desire to stay in the United States is you could see your family still more. So you could do that for three years, and then just do that towards the end. Or you just do that first and get back in your home for three years out of a four year maybe enlistment at the time. Now it's so different I believe because we're actively involved in other areas of the world where there's some things happening. But when I was in there was nothing, no major conflicts at the time that would change it. So it was those three choices. So yeah I don't want to say anything bad about Okinawa, it was great but for me it was a matter of wanting to eat the worst thing on my plate first, I thought at the time. And then get back home and enjoy my desert.

John: What was base life like, in Okinawa?

Bryan: Hot, humid, and again different. It was somewhere I've never been, so knowing that I was, I'm already 18 and I'm overseas you know. I'm gonna get to see all the coolest electronics that Japan has to offer which turned out not to be that much different than ours. But sandy, humid, I remember people having sweat lines in their uniform by 8:00 o'clock in the morning. But you got to meet, it was the first time I had an opportunity to start meeting people in a unit. By the time I had left with all my schooling I had spent six months doing Stateside, I got assigned to my first unit and that's where you started making those bonds with guys that were doing the same thing you were doing. You know they were all coming in from different walks of life.

John: What was that unit?

Bryan: Initially I went to a base north of where I ended up, Camp Foster and that was a logistical unit, I do not remember the name. I was 19:00only there for a short period of time, they were gearing up to head to Australia so I got to be able to jump with them onto that. But what happened was when I was coming back from Australia, the unit that I ended up staying at for two and a half years, it was a MEU Service Support Group. They got attached and what they, our job was, was if an embassy ever got hot or if they couldn't extract the ambassador and his entourage it was our job to fly in with helicopters, drop us in and we would take everybody up through the air out of an embassy.

John: Is that an acronym Marine Expeditionary Unit?

Bryan: That's what we ended up being a part of, the bigger part of it, MSSG was the smaller version that got attached to the MEU.

John: I see I see. And so that's the core of your service with that unit, two and a half years with that unit.

Bryan: Absolutely and I, that I loved doing. That allowed us to get attached to, the Navy. We got put on their ships we got to float everywhere with them. We might only do it three months at a time and be back in Okinawa for a month or two. Go back out, do work-ups with the Navy really start meeting not just Marines, but other service members that start opening up your eyes that we need to work together. You know the Marine Corps is great in my mind and I was maybe blinded to it in my youth before joining. But having met the guys I met on those ships, the Navy's pretty great too. And then having to deal with other people afterwords, you know every one of our branches we need to make anything happen so it was an eye opener.

John: Give me an example of one of these missions or I forget the word, work-ups that you did with the Navy. Where was it and are these 21:00simulated situations at times that this is has happened all the sudden you have the Marines and the Navy have to act in unison and solve the situation?

Bryan: I would say that I would agree on a larger scale, I would have been a E2, E3 and then towards the end an E4. But seeing my small role in it a lot of times, when the Navy, we had to get on ships. So had to know how to be acclimated to a ship, so we'd be put on right out of Okinawa. And they might go out for 30 days and maybe it was a work-up for 30 days. So we'd be on ship, we would know where to go if it was general quarters and then the Navy would do their things that they need to do. To make sure we can get anywhere we would need to be safely and then still be able to engage. So there could have been a bigger piece of that pie that I am completely unaware of to this day. And then for us we would pull in somewhere, and by pull in obviously using the hovercrafts on the ship or the machinery we had to get from the ship to shore. And then we would practice our landings. Which is what my job ended up having a bigger piece to do with. We would be 22:00directing people once they hit the shore, their staging areas where we would put things. Getting 'em across the beach up into inland. So yeah those work-ups is just how we would work with the Navy when they got us to where we needed to be and facilitate that support to us while we pushed from ship to land.

John: Yeah I mean, again in sort of the mythical memory of the Marines I'd mostly through World War Two movies it's the Marines hitting the beach. On these amphibious, through these amphibious vehicles is it more, were you transported more by way of air in landing? Or did you do, did you get to shore a number of different ways?

Bryan: It was usually through amphibious, we would never, we always worked with the helicopters. However we weren't a part of a squadron. 23:00You know so we would have been the ground, just to hook them up that was, I mean their job is definitely something else. And if it was reconnaissance or anything they were doing then that day maybe their job was to hey you need to go pick up this five ton or a Humvee and we've gotta take this out 'cause some guys need it in the forward. So they would do those things, so I don't think necessarily we flew in too often with them but it would have been through, LCACs which is the hover I can't remember, I just remember that acronym. And then other types of vehicles that they had that we would go in on. Usually though we, it's always in waves. So for us to set the beach up we were one of the first waves to get out there.

John: Back to Okinawa, did you have much time off duty basically within base to work out or do whatever you'd want to do and then also 24:00leave for you to go elsewhere within that general area?

Bryan: For the most part I would say absolutely yes. I mean they actually, I think encouraged it to a degree, for you to work out I mean that was something we did early in the morning 'cause the temperatures would rise with the humidity. But if you wanted to they had great gyms on bases everything you would need is on base. I think there was a Burger King, I mean I remember we would go to Burger King it was the best thing to do, however we had Chow Hall Card. And the Chow Hall was great food, so but now going outside, wasn't that we weren't allowed. Which you absolutely could it was just that there was an instant language barrier if you walked out the gates. However I think if you were just pleasant to people and you had a smile you were gonna do okay. You didn't have to actually learn the language, if you wanted to it might help you a little bit. But great place to go you know as an enlistment.

John: Would you be able to go to the mainland Japan also at times?

Bryan: If you wanted to use your leave, I never had done that. I did take a couple like three day vacations, or you know I take leave on the island for a friend of mine his birthday and we would just go camping. It was a good time but at the same time Okinawa, again is an island but it was it's pretty big. There's a lot to see in the as long as you learn how to navigate it. So for me I never went to Japan mainland no.

John: When you were camping on Okinawa, did you find remnants of the World War Two battle there? Were you aware of it, was it sort of in the air in any way or?

Bryan: There's memorials set up on the island. If you were to go south I believe there's a memorial there. But other than that it's kind of, there's this, the idea of it you can go to the Suicide Cliffs of Okinawa. You can see spots, but there's not necessarily a strong 26:00presence of leftover, you know it's been cleaned up, it's been made into a park. So not, you're not gonna see some old tank that's rusted away in a corner somewhere of some field. Nothing like that no but they do have a lot of, ways to remember you know. If it's memorials or if it's now parks things that you can go visit and see.

John: I mean did the Marines themselves say hey, I mean you're gonna be stationed at an island where one of the most famous heroic battles the Marines ever fought took place? Was that sort of institutional recognition there about Okinawa?

Bryan: Not in my unit, it may have happened but not that I can recall, you're really with the Marines that are with you. So if they have the knowledge of it, or if your commander would have that and he wanted to push that through to you, you would get it. But if not, no not 27:00necessarily.

John: So tell me about ranks, I think you said E1 E2 does that translate into Private, Private First Class and then the like or how did you progress at all through the ranks during these four years in service?

Bryan: Okay so I joined as a Private, there's some incentives there if you can have I think at the time when I did, if you can get two of your friends to join. You would get on graduation of Boot Camp your stripe your first stripe which is an E2 or PF so Private First Class. I did not do that, not that I didn't want to. Just I wasn't very active in trying to get any of my friends to join it wasn't something that I was looking to do with my own career. I know I wanted to do it I didn't need to tell anybody else to do something. So I joined as a Private, six months later you get I believe PFC, and then there's a timeline that you would be getting Lance Corporal, and once you make 28:00E3. To make E4 it changes over not just time of service, but things have to happen you have to have a certain, your Fit Rep or your pros and cons, they start playing into. They're not just gonna promote you on time, it's going to be are you a Marine that we want to promote? Do we want you to become more in the Marine Corps? And I've met people that didn't do well and had to leave for their own decisions, they make bad decisions and other guys that promoted rather quickly. Because they really cared about what they wanted to do. You can take Marine Corps classes which is maybe some math courses online or you can do it through books and you get yours. And they would be active in how they wanted to promote if that was what they thought of as a career or really wanted to attain rank and so they wanted to help themselves the best they could. So yeah I made it to E4 and my enlistment was coming to an end and I exited the Marine Corps at that time.

John: So there must be pay raises as you work your way up these ranks also. Does it make a difference within the way you interact with the 29:00other Marines? I mean being yeah being a Corporal does earn you more respect than a Private First Class and then people sort of acknowledge that and it's an important part of being in service.

Bryan: I would agree, I mean you work hard for any rank you get. It's never getting, especially at Corporal or up. You've earned the right to wear that extra stripe or if it's gonna be a rocker underneath if you go far enough at Staff Sergeant. I also believe that the Marines that are under you they realize that too 'cause they're doing the same thing. So I don't think they would act ill knowing that they're going to have the same thing and what someone else do the same. You know they want to be treated, or you treat them how they would treat you. It's a pretty good system, that being said you're gonna have that 10% I would say of anybody that can fall through the cracks. I mean 30:00I think that happens in the civilian world just as easily as it can happen in the military world. Someone that can do really well and maybe something bad happened to 'em. Or their own life you know, things happen and they can have a bad stint you know make a mistake. But when I was a Corporal it wasn't that I didn't want to be friends with if they were an E3 or below. It's just that I have a role to play, that's my job is to take care of these guys at the end of the day, or women. And you can play with those parameters a little bit you know you don't have to be so diligent in barking orders all the time. But hey guys you know we have to get this done. This is the best way I think we can possibly do it, if you go do this and I'll take care of this with these guys and you work together. I mean it's always gonna be you're never gonna be by yourself in the Marine Corps. You're always going to be with your platoon or your squad. So you have to build that relationship at the same time as commanding your troops so there's. It's a juggling act but it's one that you get coached and you have 31:00Sergeants above you that say hey this scenario you could have done better if you had done this. I always carried a book with me and if I ever had questions given to me I would write the question done 'cause I had a tendency to forget and that was a suggestion from a Sergeant. He's like you know I had the same problem, I carry this with me no matter where I go and I check it at night and get back to the guy. So when they ask questions they want answers and it's your job as their Corporal to get them answers, even if they don't like it. You know it's your answer to get back to 'em.

John: Did you feel much hostility towards commissioned officers in the Marines?

Bryan: I personally did not however being in the unit that I was in, being part of the MSSG, my platoon commander. Instead of being a Second Lieutenant, maybe a First Lieutenant was a Captain right out of the gate. Our company commander was Lieutenant Colonel instead of maybe a Captain or perhaps a Major. So these gentlemen my Captain was a Sergeant who went to school and became an officer. So he know what 32:00we were doing, he was one of those guys that would say you don't get me in trouble I won't get you in trouble and you worked really hard for that guy. Our Colonel being that he was so high up, for me even as an E4 when I got out. You don't talk to Colonels, you know there's no reason for me ever to have a conversation with a Lieutenant Colonel or Colonel that I could think of. But this guy was very he's a good guy, and he would have formations and talk to us. So no for me personally I never had a bad experience with an officer, on a professional level. They were great people. I mean that sounds like lip service at best but they were a good group of guys.

John: You've mentioned a couple times, presence of women in the Marines in Okinawa. Was there a fair percentage of female Marines?

Bryan: I was not a combat MOS, so mine was logistics so we definitely could have women there, there's not really the concern there was. 33:00Maybe that's changed in the scope of how the military is using their personnel in combat now. I'm sure it's a bigger issue but, the women we had, there wasn't a lot I would say maybe two out of an entire platoon, maybe other platoons if it was motor transport. They might have a higher percentage of women you know women that could drive or I can think of scenarios where some of those women. I think worked harder than some of the guys in our same platoon and I don't know if it was 'cause they were trying to beat that stereotype. But specifically I can remember one and she, I saw her take ammunition from a guy that he was supposed to be carrying. And she put it on her pack because he was in her squad and he couldn't do it and she did it for him. And so I have these instances time and again you know, where you're just a 34:00team. It's not really your sex or your gender is not really important if you can do your job.

John: And is that the same kind of attitude say in terms of off-duty and within camp life or base life did you notice tensions, antagonisms or other problems? With you know between the sexes as it were at Okinawa?

Bryan: No not really again you're stuck there like you're on an island you're not leaving so if you want to have a bad relationship with somebody over your profession I guess that was your option. But I think for the most part and now in Okinawa there were women there, I want to clarify that not in my platoon. Because of where we were at, what we were doing. I don't know if that was opened up to women. However there were woman in the company. The logistics part of it or the drivers. When I got back to North Carolina I left that unit and I came 35:00back to an 0481 and there were women in that company and that's where I would see some of these girls working just as hard you know. So I would see them but I had no reason to talk to 'em. There was no real direct contact for me outta somebody else's company I just didn't really cross those lines I had 32 guys in my platoon that we worked well together, and if they did I'm not quite sure I wouldn't be able to speak for 'em.

John: So other than Okinawa where else were you stationed during four years?

Bryan: Well still out of Okinawa we did quite a few floats. I was like I said I got to go to Australia. I turned 19 in Thailand, I turned 20 in Singapore, there was Guam in there which was beautiful. Bali, Indonesia, it was always these, when you're out doing your floats. You 36:00somehow were able to maybe pull a Libbo spot for four or five days you'd pull in. The command would set that up I'm guessing and after you did something if you were floatin for three months I got to go to Kuwait. I was in Kuwait, on your way back maybe you would hit a Libbo port and let the guys kind of breathe a little bit.

John: What is that, liberty is that the abbreviation for liberty?

Bryan: Yeah I'm sorry, you would pull in you would dock even if it was and they would arrange for if there was no dock to go to they would just throw anchor out and little boats. They'd arrange to come out and pick up and ferry you in to beaches and you'd have. You'd have to be back on ship by midnight maybe or 10:00 o'clock whatever the command had set up and then you could exit the ship again by say 7:00 o'clock in the morning. Usually you had to be back on ship each night, check in make sure you're still there and so yeah every time we ever did anything with the Navy we somehow were able to have a little bit of a vacation afterwords.

John: What about Kuwait, what was Kuwait like to what you remember, wait I know the answer to this, hot.

Bryan: Always hot, always hot.

John: This was, do you remember roughly the time was it '98 or?

Bryan: '99 I want to say and I couldn't tell you. I actually believe that we were happy that we were there in their winter. Which after being there in their winter, there's no difference to me but I was never there in their summer so maybe it would have been a drastic change of my opinion. I remember trying to box for the first time and it didn't go well. And just how plain the camp was, there's no distinction in the camp that I went to. In the way of all the buildings look the same they all look, one could be a PX if it had that stuff in it or logistics, the other one could be a complete ammo dump. Have everything that you would need for ammunition but for anybody that would be 38:00doing any kind of surveillance to the camp there's nothing that would let you know what that was. So that was pretty impressive. Also even when you're in those spots, how far your, I don't even want to say command at this point but your government will go to a degree that they were bringing people in the USO was real big. In '99, bringing in people that would sing, I think, I can't remember her name Mary Chaplin I believe? She was doing a tour, where she was going around bases and you know meeting and greeting. Robin Williams was big into doing things like that and it, that was pretty neat. You're over there and you're doing what you think is good and true and they're trying to make a bad situation better in some small way. So other than it being hot and knowing I can't box and it being very ordinary that's pretty much what I took away from the base life of Kuwait. And I believe that was Camp Doha, was the name of the base.

John: Within the four years what other important places or assignments should we talk about? Within, yeah within that term?

Bryan: I don't know maybe clarify a little bit more, what I've taken away from the Marine Corps are. From all the assignments that I got to have the opportunity to do. Was really the guys I met, those are ties you are not easily gonna have the opportunity to make I feel, in the civilian world. Some of these guys I still talk to, to this day and I've been out well I joined 20 years ago. You know so 16 years ago I got out and to this day I still call one guy frequently. And he was from Louisiana, these are guys that you wouldn't have an opportunity to meet and do the things that you're going to do. On one of this favorite pictures, we had spent about 30 days in NTA, which is a Northern 40:00Training Area in Okinawa. Which is still this vast jungle it's hot and muddy and it's raining all the time. And he was covered in mud after that 30 days and somehow he got a picture and right beside it he has a picture of him in his dress blues. And you see the reality of any given day how dirty you're gonna get doing a job that we do and then the opportunity to shine. When you get to clean yourself up and enjoy something like a Marine Corps ball. And I really can't emphasize that enough without beating it too bad but those guys were great. I could go into story after story about what we did just as a group but not necessarily what it was in relation to the Marine Corps. Maybe just what we did to make those bonds between us better.

John: When you were, during those four years. You do through this immense training and the Marines as a part of the Armed Forces of the 41:00United States. But especially so the Marines are, they're attack troops and you know as the saying goes sometimes the Marines pray for war. Was there a sense with you or your friends that no that anybody would really wish war upon anyone else but that you sort of hope that something would happen that you would have a live missions so after all this training, you can see how good you are? And how you perform under that kind of pressure?

Bryan: Oh absolutely I think any young man or woman that joins the military they're not going to join to not want to do something. For 42:00example when we went to Kuwait we weren't sure where that was going to be, we just know we are entering a theater where I didn't have to pay my taxes anymore, I was exempt from taxes. So in that right it was exciting but yeah to be tried you know and be tested and all the things you would think of maybe. In this perfect idea of you might think war is without having to do it, I've never had to shoot my weapon at another human I never had to do that. So even though I was in the Marine Corps, one of the things I can say now. I'm pretty happy I didn't have to do that, you know it's a real when we talk about the young men and women who are joining today. That's a real gut check, when I joined as a peacetime Marine where there's nothing really going on in the world as a crisis. And these young men and women are doing it now knowing full well the opportunity is not likely it's probably, it's happening. You're going somewhere, it says a lot about our youth joining any branch today.

John: Did you have much of a decision to make as to continuing with the Marines after four years or was it pretty clear in your mind that through the four year thing you got a lot out of it and now on to the next stage of your life?

Bryan: That's a great question and I've actually thought about this one a lot especially now that I've, I'm at my 20 year mark you can retire you know. I could have been well I'm drawing something. Having come back from Okinawa I truly loved the Marine Corps getting to North Carolina leaving that unit, I don't know if I still love the Marine Corps. Don't get me wrong in any way but they didn't have a mission at the time I mean so there was nothing that you could get behind, and when you don't have anything to do you know idle hands become a big problem. You'd clean your barracks and that was great. You start doing more training, you're just training and that's 44:00wonderful you're doing a lot with your campus, or compasses and your shooting azimuths and all those things that make you a Marine. But having come from somewhere where we were able to do our job, and have a good time doing it and that kept people off your back. You didn't have to do so much in the way to make people happy, you already had something to do. So at that point, they had a CAX coming up in North Carolina, I was here I think a few months. And I remember it being extremely cold in North Carolina when I got here in I want to say it was September of '99 and it was still warm in North Carolina, if I go to North Carolina right now it's warm and being over in Japan for three years I just wasn't acclimated to that you know. I was cold here, but they had a CAX coming up and that was where you go to Camp Pendelton 45:00and work in the desert and live in these huts and no one really wanted to do it so in North Carolina. Because the Marines were still going home to their parents or had their girlfriends I wasn't used to that. I was raised in a Marine Corps where your 30 guys in your platoon are everything you got. And you didn't go anywhere on the weekends if you did you went with them so a base in North Carolina at Camp Lejeune it would spread out. You know there was no reason for, if I could go home I probably would have done the same thing. I just didn't do that so it was a different type of Marine Corps you know you're not stuck on an island you know 2,000 miles away from home and I wasn't used to it so that, I had some questions about that and then I got to go to California. I spent I think three months there and I enjoyed that quite a bit, not just living in a desert but I was back with the guys kind of leave.

John: Is this Pendelton?

Bryan: Yes sir at 29 Palms and so I did get to do that. And then I wasn't quite sure of what I wanted to do at that point 'cause I had seen two different types of Marine Corps. And I thought I haven't' been home at all and I thought college would probably be in my future at this point I got the G.I. Bill so I stepped out of the Marine Corps at that point and thought I'm gonna pursue something else and try it out.

John: I wanna pursue that but briefly back to 29 Palms and I know 29 Palms as being a place that developed pretty advanced simulations. For running Marines through mock-up middle-eastern towns and the like before they were deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq, is that the 29 Palms that, was that part of the 29 Palms that you knew? Or what was 29 Palms in 1999?

Bryan: I still think I never did a town of any sort I never saw that so maybe that's been added since. What we would do yeah it was picking up doing my same job but in a desert scenario so then you're adding getting blasted with the downwash of a helicopter that's throwing down 200,000 you know, their voltage on there to be grounded out. And their 150 mile an hour downwind so you're getting berated with sand things like that. So you have to learn to cover yourself better so in that way I guess it would have been a mock-up to a degree.

John: For Kuwait or Iraq or Afghanistan--

Bryan: Absolutely, absolutely or any desert kind of operation I would have to say. 'Cause I don't know how prevalent everything was gonna be, I mean I don't know the timeline it was varied but I think they were doing this 20 years ago. You know so if you have Marines that 48:00needed to learn their job anywhere you have to take 'em to places that isn't just a nice grassy field you know. So they have the foresight to make sure that they had an operation going somewhere even just in training to do it in a hot dry sandy environment.

John: So how did the G.I. Bill work for you in college is there a monthly allotment amount that you receive or do they cover a certain percentage of your tuition or how does that work?

Bryan: So mine ended up changing a little bit, I never went to college I was able to get out of the Military and I got into an apprenticeship program. And what the G.I. Bill did for that was, if a journeyman lineman or electrician or something they make a certain wage and me as a first step it's to off-set the difference. While you're going through the apprenticeship program. So I would just get a check monthly and that would, I would just cash that and to help pay for bills until you became a journeyman in your field.

John: And what is your field, what did you pick?

Bryan: I'm a journeyman lineman.

John: Lineman.

Bryan: Yep for a utility here in Pennsylvania.

John: Was it much of a transition to leave this you know really super-organized regimented life in the Marines to normal civilian, for normal civilian life? How did that go for you?

Bryan: I would say in a lot of ways normal civilian life is a lot more complicated, in the Marine Corps. For me, you have to wake up at a certain time, someone's telling you when to get up. They're gonna give you food you get to do what they tell you and at a certain time at night they're gonna say okay you're released until tomorrow morning at this time don't do anything extremely stupid and get yourself in trouble. There's no, no way of finances. You get paid but you have, you're living in a barracks. You don't have to pay rent, you're not 50:00paying, you have a food plan they give you a card. You can go eat there three times a day and it's great food and if you want to buy a car, that's on you but you're making the wage you're making. You should be able to afford that. So really it was, for me not overly hard in the Marine Corps in the way of financing or that. But when you come back out of it then you start realizing okay I make this much money, but you don't make that money that's not real money after you start paying. I didn't pay rent until I was 21 years old. Not that I didn't know it was happening, but just you start seeing your money divvied up and you're like whoa what's this. You know two months ago I could just get paid on the 1st and 15th and that was mine. So in a lot of ways I wouldn't want to short-change the normal status quo of civilian life. I transferred I would say relatively easy, it was having that being said I had some friends when I did get out, I moved into an apartment 51:00with one of them great guy. And then that slowly changed over in getting to the apprenticeship program, and moving forward. But again I think when you work, like I did, with the Marines I had as a team. You just find a different team which is why I think I really enjoy my job now is, being a lineman you're dealing with something that's gonna hurt you if you make a mistake. So you work with guys and you'll be on storms and they're your team they have your back just as much as anybody in Iraq or a squad in Okinawa. You know you have to trust somebody. So we just keep doing that.

John: So did you go to the apprenticeship program back in Williamsport where you--

Bryan: I was hired out of Williamsport and we did our apprenticeship I had to go to Allentown Pennsylvania and take the tests. Then they 52:00would send you back, I'd be working with the crews but I would be at a certain level so I couldn't touch maybe I wasn't allowed to touch 7,000 volts yet. But I could do 600 volts and below so house services and you would do that for a certain period of time and go back and test they'd have some things that they want you to do. Climb up a pole, if you had to do pole-top rescue and if you could do those in the time that was allotted to do it and you were always getting watched by instructors and then you'd have to pass the written test or exams of what they thought you should know. And you would move up so it took maybe four and a half years I think to make journeyman.

John: It sounds you know, really roughly like the Marines in a way in terms of the scales and the moving up the ranks and the like. Did you find that the training in the Marines and some of those specific skills translated over to learning how to be a lineman?

Bryan: They never hurt, I mean the Marine Corps is gonna give you certain things that no one is ever going to be able to take away. I've 53:00two daughters like I said when I started this, they always say that I'm, my voice is too loud. Where you learn how to use your diaphragm you know to speak to somebody so that being said. It didn't hurt in anyway again, they're not trying to hurt me and I'm not gonna hurt them. So talking to 'em I think they saw me as an individual that they can talk to and not somebody, with the things that I had learned and how to speak to people and hear what they had to say. Or if I didn't understand I had no problem with my confidence to say I don't understand what you're saying can we say it a different way or can we talk about it? Whereas I see some of the guys that get hired that are younger, they'll, they wanna do it. They wanna do it well they wanna listen to what you have to say but they don't quite understand it and they end up doing it wrong. And that's where you're gonna make mistakes, that's how you're gonna hurt yourself. So yeah confidence was huge 54:00doing the job that I do now but I think I got, a lot of that given to me by the steps I take in an earlier, as a Marine, that's a lifestyle.

John: So you've stressed the friendships, the brotherhood of serving in the Marines and that kind of, and also the discipline and self confidence. That came from service, are there qualities or things that you feel like really the Marines and those four years gave to you as a young man?

Bryan: Things that aren't even happening, they're just now coming to light. My daughters are nine and seven, I found out I really don't have to yell at 'em if you talk to kids. It's my experience that they're good kids, they want to be good and it's I always tell them that, 55:00if I say no to something if you think that I'm wrong you can persuade me through a pretty good argument then maybe I am wrong. And also that I feel I've been tested. I think I've done things in society that say hey I did the Boot Camp in Paris Island in the hottest months of the year, so I don't have to have this fake bravado, so I don't mind telling my daughters that. We can talk through an argument versus me just raising my voice or using some type of corporal punishment if it's gonna be spanking I've never done that. I get to tell them that they're a strong woman and no one can take that away from them. Women and it goes back to the Marine Corps. I saw women doing things that Marines were doing that were male and we have to stop those correlations they're just Marines you know? And these are women that are gonna do great, so yeah the confidence to not force my agenda onto somebody and to say hey you know we can figure this out together, if it's 56:00different and maybe we can get on the same path. Is very important so communication I would say, helps a lot with people.

John: When the time comes might you consider encouraging your daughters to join the Marines or another military service?

Bryan: As of right now as a father that's a tough one and I would say yes I would never want them to shut a door. I would rather keep all their doors open, the only thing I would ask of them is I warned them. If they were I would want them to talk to each recruiter and maybe have a little more on their plate to pick from than just deciding to do it because. You know it wouldn't hurt to talk, to somebody else and see hey, maybe the Marine Corps wouldn't be a fit for them. Maybe it absolutely is, but I know Air Force I have some friends in that, they eat really well. Like their Chow Halls are amazing, I was so envious every time we went onto their bases.

John: Better than the Marines?

Bryan: Ours was great but I think it's only because they didn't have to put away their tray. They could leave their tray on the table and they had staff that would clean that up. I mean the food was the same, but I was blown away that you could leave a tray on the table, you didn't have to clean it up. So absolutely I would support the decision they want to make, I don't know how far I would go in aggressively pushing that agenda though.

John: For 16, 17, 18 year olds today, who may be considering joining the Marines or another branch of the Armed Forces. Is there a particular question you think might be valuable for them to take up in helping them make that decision, is there I don't think there's any ma-- you know any secret magic question. But what do you think they should be thinking about?

Bryan: Well one, not to reiterate but explore all your options and two if you're going to be one of two things. Either you're going to be 58:00joining the military and you're going to make it a career. So if you're singing up for something, make sure that you like that. Or it's something that you're interested in, not something that's gonna be a four year and you're gonna do something else the next four years. So it's a, it's going to college and picking that degree and saying I'm going to apply this degree to my life. Like so there's a correlation there to be made, and two, if you aren't going to stay in. What does that MOS or that job you're going to be getting how's that going to translate or help you when you get out? I don't do anything with helicopters at this point and I don't land on beaches so there, the job part of mine is not there. But the, what I took from it helped me immensely. (mumbling)

John: Thanks so much Bryan, thanks.

Bryan: Absolutely, thank you for having me.

John: It's a great interview, no my pleasure.