Dan Zimpfer

Interviewer: Six, 2011 around two o'clock in the afternoon, I am John Pettegrew with Jared and Liz here and interviewing Dan Zimpfer, Z-i-m-p-f-e-r.

Dan: Yeah.

Interviewer: Thanks for talking with us.

Dan: Sure.

John: Just to start with some very basics about who you are the like when were you born and where were you brought up, were you raised?

Dan: I was born July 31st, 1984. I was born in the area. I grew up in Hellertown, Pennsylvania which is, actually Williams Township, it's a little outside of Hellertown. Grew up there my whole life.

John: Where did you go to high school?

Dan: I went to a Wilson area high school.

John: Did you graduate?

Dan: Yes, I did. I graduated in 2002.

John: And, what happened after high school? What did you do?

Dan: After high school I went to work for my dad for a little bit doing construction. I was in the construction business and I still 1:00am now, but I did that for about two years, probably a year and a half I'd say, a year and a half before enlisting into the Marine Corp in 2004. I was in the DEP program, well delayed entry program. Sorry if I use acronyms.

John: I'll just probably ask you to tell us what they are.

Dan: Delayed entry program in September of actually 2003 before I went to bootcamp May fifth of 2004.

John: I see, did you have some plan your later years in high school after you got out of high school to join the military? Did your dad, other people in your family have military experience? How did you come to this idea in actually joining the Marine Corp.

Dan: My dad was a Marine but actually he didn't really say too much about it growing up and stuff like that. I actually just did it on 2:00a whim one day. Like, I really had no set plan after I graduated high school. I didn't know what, where I was going in life or anything like that so I was like, "You know what, "the hell with it I might as well just go down "and join the Marine Corp." So, I just did that one day. I didn't tell my mom or my dad. Just went down and did it and called my parents the day I was leaving for bootcamp. I said, "You gotta come home, I'm leaving." They said, "That the hell do you mean you're leaving?" That's what my dad said. I said, "I'm leaving for bootcamp." So, that's pretty much how I got in the Marine Corp.

John: They were surprised, were the happy, sad, wishing you the best?

Dan: They pretty much wished me the best kind of attitude. My dad's like, "Good, good for ya," pretty much.

John: You joined in early 2004. There's September 11th, 2001. The Afghanistan War shortly after that. And then, the beginning of the Iraq War in March 2003. Did those things have anything to do with you joining the Marines?

Dan: I mean, September 11th obviously did. I mean, who couldn't reach out to that? So, I mean, that did play a role in me enlisting into the Marine Corp, but it wasn't just solely on that. It was really I had no where else, didn't know what else to do, I didn't really know what I was doing in life so I just wanted a change of pace, a change of direction. And, that's what I chose.

John: And, are you glad that you did?

Dan: Absolutely, I'd do it all again in a heart beat.

John: What was bootcamp like?

Dan: Well, I'm gonna start from the beginning. You got on an airplane and they kept me in Harrisburg for about a day. And then, they fly you out, I think it was South Carolina they fly you out to. It was either Georgia or South Carolina you fly to first. I don't remember which one. When you get there it's two o'clock in the morning. And, they basically just drive you around Parris Island for 4:00about two hours just in total circles. You have no idea what's up, what's down, what's left and right. Then, you pull up to what's called a receiving barracks. You get off this bus pretty much the drill instructor gets on there and goes and says real quietly, he steps up on the bus real quietly and all of a sudden you wake up real quick. It's more of a "Get the fuck off my bus," kind of thing is exactly what he says. So, you get of the bus and go stand in these yellow foot prints. Everybody knows the yellow footprints. And, they march you into the receiving barracks. And, receiving is just to wait for your platoon to start up. What you do is you basically gotta sit on the concrete floor for about a day and a half. And, that's when bootcamp actually started. So, my platoon was 2069. I was with Hotel company, Second Battalion. There's three phases in bootcamp, phase one, two, and three. South Carolina's a little hot. You've got sand fleas, chiggers, all sorts of stuff down there. And, it just, they basically break you down and then build you back 5:00up. And, just a series of that, break you down, build you up, break you down, build you up until your training is pretty much complete.

John: Shave your head?

Dan: Yeah, you get a nice little crew cut there. If you have any moles on your head they're gone by the end of the haircut session.

John: What are the three stages of bootcamp?

Dan: The first phase really is just, let me see if I can remember here, it's been almost 10 years. The first phase it's where they basically like introduce you to Marine Corp life. Like, you're from a civilian to a transition into a Marine. And they basically they break you down, they break you all the way down into the dirt. You wear your cammies all inside out and stuff like that. You don't have, basically, I don't wanna say you don't have rights, but you don't have privileges. And then, towards the end of the first phase 6:00that's when you start doing your close order drill, your rifles, and marching and stuff like that. You march everywhere, doesn't matter where you're going you march everywhere. And, you pretty much look like idiots the first few weeks until you all get in step. And then, the third phase is you're almost there. You're actually transitioned into almost a Marine yet and it just, you start seeing that change in everybody. Your unit cohesion is there and stuff like that, final drill, the Crucible, stuff like that. It's basically just a phase of.

John: Was it tough, physically?

Dan: Not physically, no, physically I mean you have PT everyday, or physically train everyday. You're always out there doing something. It doesn't matter where you're going, you're always running, you're never walking. You're doing push ups, crunches, pull 7:00ups, anything like that. Yeah, that's how you start every morning, really is you run, minimum of three miles. Like our PFT is you have to run three and a half miles in under like 24 minutes I think it is. You have to do a max set of pull ups which is max points or 20. If you do 20 pull ups you get 100 points. And then, you gotta do 200 crunches in under two minutes.

John: Were you in sports in high school?

Dan: I was in sports, yeah.

John: What did you, what did you--

Dan: I played baseball and basketball.

John: So, you were in good shape, you were working construction prior to bootcamp. And, that sounds pretty rigorous but it wasn't, it didn't come close to breaking you down or anything.

Dan: Not really, no the physical part of it is just scratching the surface of it if you will. I mean, you're always doing something, like I said. You're always running around and it was more mental than it was anything else.

John: Yeah, it might be hard to talk about but I mean not a lot of us have been sort of intentionally broken down before, mentally, that is. What you can say about it? They try to get you all to the same point, it seems, that you're all the same--

Dan: Yeah, basically what they do is they break everyone down mentally until you're all basically zero. And then, they build you back up and then you basically you grow from there. You grow in your own Marine just like when you're little you grown into your child and then grow into your own man. You grow into your own Marine.

John: So, bootcamp lasts about eight weeks or so?

Dan: It's 13 actually.

Dan: 13?

Dan: 13, yeah. I went there May fifth and I graduated a day before my birthday, July 30th.

John: And then what happens?

Dan: After that, that's when they give you your actual, like your job, like where you're gonna go. A lot of people, you can go all over parts, all over the country. But, for me, I was voluntary SOI, which is School of Infantry, which is in North Carolina. I was on Camp Geiger, which is School of Infantry. It's where they teach you all your infantry tactics and stuff like that. So, the first part of SOI is basic infantry package. It's all your squad rushes, fire teams, and stuff like that. And then, about halfway through, I'm not sure if it's half, I really forget, but then they do a break down. And that's when you go to your MOS school. Like, your 0311's which are your basic infantry men, They'll continue doing their infantry package, just more in depth than what everybody else went through. And then, like you're 0311s did that then your 0341s which are your mortar men they go on, they get specialized in mortars. 10:00And, your 0351s get specialized in assault men. And, the 0331s they specialize in machine guns. And, 0352s specialize in TOWs.

John: And, how 'bout you?

Dan: I was an 0352 to start. I was a TOW gunner. And, when I hit the fleet, the fleet Marine Corp force I went to, what the hell is it called? AMGLC, Advanced Machine Gun Leadership Course where I picked up a secondary MOS which as 0331.

John: What is a TOW gun?

Dan: A TOW gun in a tube-launched, optically tracked, wire-guided missile. They've been around since Viet Nam. Basically, they're for your, they're anti-armor. They're for your tanks, you can blow a hole in the side of the building if you wanted to. But, primarily for tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.

John: And, are they mobile? Can you carry one yourself?

Dan: No, they're mounted on Humvees. There's no way you can carry that out there. Well, you can set it up on the ground, but it's in pieces so it takes a little bit to set up. But, they do have a tripod where you can set it up but if you have to carry that around it's, it's bulky, it's not heavy, it's bulky.

John: It's a powerful weapon though. I mean, if you compared it to an RPG or like a bazooka from World War II, Korean war it's more powerful than those--

Dan: Yeah, the only thing is that it's, we call it death on a wire. It's, what it is is 'cause there's wires that send a signal to that missile where to go. So, wherever you point, if you're, wherever you point that to that missile's gonna go 'cause there's wires in there sending signals to that missile. So, that's why you look through this little sight glass and on the cross hairs and when you fire that wherever you start tracking, we call it tracking, that's where that missile's gonna go. The only thing with that, is, it's 12:00on a wire and so it's not a fire and forget weapon like you would have a Javelin is a fire and forget weapon. So, you have to stay there till you either hit your target or miss your target. So, it'll go 3,750 meters in about 22.5 seconds. So, it's actually a very slow traveling missile.

John: At what altitude, I mean, is there an arc to it?

Dan: No, there's not an arc. Wherever you point that thing, if you want it to go up a little bit you just pull back on the tube and it goes up.

John: 3,700 meters, I mean that's--

Dan: 2.2 miles. (laughs)

John: Incredible, the sight on it then must be really powerful.

Dan: Yeah, there's actually a night sight and a day sight. The night sight is basically, it's pretty hard to track things. They've come out with way more advanced stuff then they have on the TOW system now. But, it's, I forget what its called actually. It looks 13:00like you're looking at all red.

John: Did you shoot the TOW in combat?

Dan: No, we actually didn't carry TOWs with us in Fallujah or Afghanistan. That's why I went to the machine gun leadership course is 'cause I wanted basically, there's more of a need for machine guns than there is for TOWs. TOWs are more 'cause we basically destroyed their whole tank battalion in like under three days. So, there was no tanks over there. When they did the push through Fallujah back in November of '04 I think they did have TOWs, I'm not sure though. I'm pretty sure they had TOWs for they were putting hole in buildings with them.

John: How would you describe the training for the machine gun specialty? Can you describe the gun itself and its range, its power?

Dan: We have, in the machine gun field there's three different, you're specialty is three different machine guns. It's a M240 Gulf, which took the place of the M60. There's a 50 cal and there's a Mark 19. Your 240, that's basically like a more to more day to day weapon that anything else. That thing will rock and roll. You're looking at max effective range on that about 1800 meters. So, it'll go.

John: A mile.

Dan: Yeah. 50 cal max effective, this is max effective range, max effective is probably 1830, 1,830 meters. The max range on it is 7400 meters or 6,667 yards. So, that bullet's gonna go a good few miles. 50 cal is more of your infantry fighting vehicles and stuff 15:00like that, take that. Mark 19 it shoots 40 millimeter grenades anywhere up to 2,212 meters, and anywhere from 30 to 60 rounds a minute. So, that's more for of like an area target. When I say area target I mean like a group of personnel, like a mortar team or something like that, any kind of infantry fighting vehicles, anything that's in more of a group kind of thing than a point target like a 50 cal or a 240 would do.

John: What would happen if you shot the Mark 19 at a concrete wall from 50 meters away?

Dan: I wouldn't wanna be 50 meters away, but--

John: Oh wow, say 150 meters.

Dan: It's gonna put a pretty big size hole in it. I mean, it's a 40 millimeter grenade. And, there's a five meter kill radius and a 15 16:00meter casualty. So, it's gonna put a very big hole in a concrete wall.

John: So, after your specialty training with machine guns what happens?

Dan: You graduate SOI and then you go to, they do a unit breakdown. Basically, they're gonna send you wherever the Marine Corp needs you. Some of you guys might go out to west coast, San Diego, Camp Pendleton. But, a lot of us stayed on the east coast and went to Camp Lejeune. And then, when you go to Camp Lejeune like they'll tell you your unit, which unit you're going to. A lot of us they all went to First Battalion Sixth Marines. And, there was three of us, me and two others, who went to Second Battalion Sixth Marines. So, it's basically it's based on the Marine Corp's needs on where they need personnel. So, like I said I was Second Battalion Sixth Marines.

John: So, that's Second Battalion, Sixth Regiment?

Dan: Second Battalion Sixth Marine Regiment, yep.

John: Called the Two Six?

Dan: Two Six.

John: And, once you're assigned to the Two Six what happened?

Dan: When you get to the Two Six then they do a company break down. They'll send you to your company. I was weapons company. And, I think the other guy went to Echo, I think. So, two of us went to weapons. They do a company breakdown and that's when you meet your Platoon Sergeants your company First Sergeant and your CO and all that stuff. That's where you kind of get settled into.

John: So, when you're going through this training after bootcamp or even during bootcamp, after bootcamp and your summer going through this training after bootcamp or even during bootcamp after bootcamp and you're assigned the Two Six there's two wars going on overseas. Are you basically knowing that that's where you're headed? I mean, there's different places you could go. As you said, you 18:00could go out to the west coast and like, but informally, at least, are you pretty much certain that that's where you're headed eventually.

Dan: I mean, that's why most of us joined at that time. We knew we were going. And, the recruiter asked me when I first went there he's like, "Well, what job do you want?" And, I said, "I want to be infantry." And, I was well aware of where I was gonna go. So, most of us knew that anyway. If you join infantry at a time of war you know where you're going.

John: And so, it's just a matter of time, I mean, it's a matter of when the Two Six gets sent to Afghanistan or Iraq.

Dan: Yeah, it's the matter of fact when or where, basically.

John: And, when or where was that?

Dan: My first time I was in, let me try to think. I don't remember the date we left because I think it was January. It might have been around January of '05, yeah January of '05, I think. I'd have to look it up, I think it's when we left to go to Kabul, Afghanistan. We 19:00just, all we did there was embassy duty. It was kind of cut and dry. You didn't do any patrols. You sat around the embassy all day and looked down at the same window for 12 hours a day, down the same street. Every once in a while you'd rotate. But, you did stay on the United States embassy. And, I think we had, I don't even know what it was but we had one explosion fly over the embassy and that was it through, we were only there for I think three months.

John: You were camped actually inside the embassy?

Dan: Yes, yeah.

John: And so, you had limited contact with Afghani people at the time.

Dan: Yeah, the only time we really had contact is we went out and did a few machine gun ranges out in the middle of the desert. You all convoy out there. And, they have a thing for brass, like the brass casings. I mean, we'd be shooting a 50 cal and the Afghani 20:00people would be running in front of the 50 cal just to get the brass. I don't know why, but it had some kind of value to 'em. I do remember that a lot. But, we did have some minimal contact with them but there was a little bit there.

John: During your training as you're preparing to go to Afghanistan were you given any basic language in terms of greetings, orders to civilians in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Dan: Not really Afghanistan, that was more like Iraq kind of thing, you got a little card. We didn't really go into depth. Some people went to like a language class. It was probably like Rosetta Stone or something like that. I don't know what it was. But, you do pick up, like in Afghanistan I really didn't pick up too much 'cause you didn't really deal with the people. Iraq, I picked up some words, like you just basically learn as you go 'cause in Iraq you deal with you associate with the people a lot more. You're out there on patrol and stuff like that, much more than I was in Afghanistan. So, you pick up day to day stuff and plus in Iraq you had an 21:00interpreter with you at all times. So, and he actually rode in my truck, it was actually a cool story. His name was Khalid. He was with me in '05 when I was in Fallujah. And then, again, he was with me all seven months in '05. And, I was also back in Fallujah in '07. I was walking through the chow hall and someone kicked me in the back of the leg. I said, "What the hell was that?" And I turned around and it's him. So, he was there he was actually my interpreter again in '07. So, we actually spent a lot of time, 14 months together. So, he's from Baghdad, I think.

John: So, three months in Kabul, embassy duty with the Two Six, and then what did you do?

Dan: We returned to the States and we did like a build up package. Like 29 Palms you go out to California and train in the desert. So, 22:00we were out there for a month. And then, you go through all your desert training packages. They have like a little like a MOUT town. MOUT is a Military Operations in Urban Terrain. You go through their MOUT town package. It's all house clearing, room clearing, urban patrols, stuff like that. After you get back from 29 Palms I'd say probably have a month or so and then we were kicked out to Iraq. So, the timeframe from Afghanistan to Iraq really wasn't that big. It was kind of one after the another.

John: With 29 Palms being a centerpiece of that time period between the two, yeah I'm interested in the MOUT town, if you could describe it a little bit. What I picture, what do I know, but it's sort of a movie set in a way, but in a lot more detail, three dimensional and the like. What was it like? What was the training like there?

Dan: MOUT town is actually is kind of like a movie set. They have these little like trailers set up, like the Conex boxes. They have these Conex boxes set up all over the place. They actually hire Iraqi nationals to comes in who speak, they're Arabic, they speak fluent Arabic. And, they try to make Iraq as realistic as possible. And, they just basically transform Iraq into the desert in California. You use sim rounds, or blanks. Sim rounds they're like a little paint ball but their in a nine mil form. So, you walk around and shoot each other with paint balls all day, really. It is kind of realistic. They set up little scenarios for you. And, all this training that they put you through in California has come from like TTPs, Tactical Techniques and Procedures that they used in Iraq, that the Iraqis are using on us, the insurgents are using on us. Because TTPs are constantly changing, everyday TTPs are 24:00changing. They know our techniques and procedures as well as we learn theirs. So, they adjust to us we adjust to them. It's just a constant cat and mouse kind of game.

John: Are you shooting sim rounds at these Iraqi people or at other Marines who you are sort of working with here.

Dan: Well, see now here's how it's set up is they have Iraqi nationals there, but they also have insurgents that are mixed in with the crowd. So, they might pull out one of these, like an M4 out from underneath their little get up there and start shooting at ya. So, we're actually shooting the so-called insurgents that are mixed in with the Iraq crowd. It's just a training purpose, just to see how we would react and then they critique you.

John: How close would you say was that training in 29 Palms to what you did and saw in Iraq? Was it accurate, was it helpful?

Dan: It was helpful, yeah. It was definitely helpful. But, I mean, nothing's going to prepare you for the actual real scenarios, the real situations and stuff like that. Once real bullets start flying that changes the whole perspective on everything. But, it is helpful in the way that just to see how other Marines react in certain situations 'cause if they're getting sim round shot I mean they're freaking out, what do you think is going to happen in Iraq, you know? It's gonna be 10 times worse probably. So, just to see, so basically it's like to feel each other out. You gotta know what your buddy is doing just as well as he's gonna has to know what you're gonna do. So, by the time you hit Iraq you know what your buddy's gonna do and he knows what you're gonna do. You don't even have to say anything.

John: Was there other simulation training at all?

Dan: There's IED simulation. You go through a whole IED, they have IED simulators that just basically it's a loud bang and they blow black smoke up in the air. And then, you'll hear across the radio, "Truck two's been hit with an IED, what do you do?" Different 26:00scenarios like that.

John: What about on screen, video games.

Dan: We did have like, it was a convoy course, like how to do convoys. That was pretty much a video game. I mean, most of use have been out there driving for a while. So, it sucks, but no one really took that seriously. You're on a video game and we're like running over bushes and stuff. It's hard to stay focused on a video game 'cause you treat it as a video game. So, you don't wanna take it really seriously but I mean once you go out there and actually drive and do the real stuff you take that seriously.

John: So, your second deployment was to Iraq.

Dan: Yes.

John: Where did you go?

Dan: I was in Fallujah, it's in Al Anbar Province in '05. So, when did I get back? April, I got back April '05 I got back. So, about 27:00August we left, seven month deployment. I think that'd be seven, August to April. August, September, October, November, December, January, February.

John: So, August '04.

Dan: August '05.

John: Oh, August '05 you went back to Iraq through April '06.

Dan: So yeah, somewhere around there, seven months. I think it was August or September we left, I forget when we left. But, we were there over Christmas, I do know that.

John: What was Fallujah like? (coughs)

Dan: When you first get to Fallujah you don't actually go to Fallujah right away. Like, we went to Kuwait first. We stayed a few days in Kuwait. That was just, like you just hung out there 'cause there was nothing going on in Kuwait. You just hung out in these little tents. From there we went to TQ, it was Al-Taqaddum, which is a little bit west of Fallujah. And then, they basically, you get bused, you get on seven tons you get shipped in like where you're going. So, we went through Fallujah and I ended up staying at Camp Baharia. 28:00And, that's kind of where you meet like the unit you're replacing, or ripping, we call it ripping. So, you meet those guys and then a few days later you have time to settle in, acclimatize, and to the time and the weather and stuff like that, a few days. And, that's when they start doing it's called left seat, right seat. They start putting your key leaders in first, as in like your Platoon Commanders, your Platoon Sergeants, and later your Vehicle Commanders, your Squad Leaders, or stuff like that. And, they take your out into the city and you basically, they don't just throw you into the mix. You go out there with the platoon that's been out there for seven months and you do like two weeks worth of patrols with them to see what they're doing. You see what's out there and stuff like that.

John: When you got to Fallujah what was your briefing about the situation there? This is after the November '04 battle. Are there 29:00still insurgents within Fallujah? What were you told would be there and what did you actually see and experience?

Dan: When we were out there, actually, the unit before us they were doing, they were just on our MSR, our main supply route. They were just doing over watch. So, they really weren't really like mixed into the city like we were eventually going to be. What they told us was, everyone knows about Fallujah, there's high insurgent activity in Fallujah. Even back in '05, after Operation Phantom Fury and stuff like that there was still a high volume of insurgents within the city. High volume snipers, there's a high volume of martyrs and guerrillas. The martyrs are the ones that are gonna fight to the death. They're the ones that are gonna come at you and hit you with 30:00everything they've got until they die. The guerrillas are more, they're gonna hit and run. A guerrilla could be anybody, it could be an insurgent, they work in little cells. They could be an insurgent giving a civilian, "Here's 300 American dollars and a 30 round mag of AK rounds, "Go shoot the Americans." So, we got reports of that. IED threat, the improvised explosive device, that was high, and mortars, mortars were also high. And, I think that's really all I remember from our initial report from when we went over there.

John: And, your basic responsibilities were patrolling, walking through Fallujah. What were your orders? What was your--

Dan: What actually happened is we actually started out over watching our MSR, making sure that our main supply route was clear to 31:00Fallujah so we can get supplies in and or anything out. What had happened was we did that for a few months, what happened over the next few months was there was actually a really, really high sniper threat in the city of Fallujah. And our LON companies, or what I mean LON companies is like the actual 0311s out there walking on the ground they cut their patrols down from day time to night time. I mean, do the math you get an armored Humvee, and you have a person with body armor which would you rather have out there during the day? So, we picked up the patrols during the day and basically what happened is we started as a weapons company we started patrolling through the city of Fallujah with trucks to kind of mitigate the sniper threat and to keep our presence in the city, knowing that we're still there. So, that's actually when we started patrolling through the city of Fallujah.

John: What happened?

Dan: We took occasional small arms fire, RPG fire, IED threats I had a bunch of those. I hit three IEDs, I ran over one land mine. I 32:00had a green Pontiac blow up behind my truck before after that. And, I was lucky through all those, not a scratch on me. The last one was they sent a letter home to my parents, actually the letter's actually in that book if you wanna look at then, saying that I was pulled off the line 'cause, at that point, they said I'd hit too many, basically. And, they pulled me out and put me in an ECP, with is Entry Control Point. And, I was there for about two weeks and then they blew that up with a dump truck, a whole dump truck blew up about 30 meters away from me. That's where I caught frags in my legs and my feet and blew out both my ear drums.

John: Is that the first purple heart that you--

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John: Were you treated right there in Fallujah or flown out somewhere?

Dan: I was taken to Fallujah Surgical and a few days later I flew out to Balod, they flew me out to Balod to fix my, they did surgery on my ears and took some metal out of my legs.

John: So you rest, you convalesce a little, you were sent back to the Two Six after that.

Dan: Yes, I was sent back after that for the main, 'cause we only had, that was in March of '06 is when that happened. And then, they sent me back to Fallujah and we only had like two months, so basically just hung out.

John: Do you remember the rules of engagement for your patrols when you were driving through Fallujah looking for sniper fire? I mean, it sounds to me like you're out there trying to, I mean, you don't wanna be a sitting duck, but you're supposed to be a target and 34:00trying to locate enemy fire, basically.

Dan: I did have a rule in engagement card I could read it verbatim but it's been a while, what's Fallujah's what seven years ago? See here, I know there's something on there hostile act or hostile intent. Hostile intent is if you see a guy walking around with an AK-47, a hostile act is when he points it at you. So, you can fire on that. Mosques are a no go, don't fire on the mosques or any holy ground. It's really all I remember from that card. I wish I brought that card with me, I could have told you verbatim what our rules of engagement were.

John: Did you fire your weapon a lot during those patrols?

Dan: If you had positive identification you did. If you're getting shot at and you know you're getting shot and you know where its coming from and you see the guy then you fire your weapon. If there's a crowd of civilians then it gets a little tougher 'cause then 35:00you're trying to figure out what came what. It's not like a free fire zone where you can just mow everything down.

John: It's gotta be extremely difficult.

Dan: Urban warfare's actually one of the most difficult things to do vice jungle warfare and stuff like that. Because, it's not just 360 degrees of danger area, it's 720 'cause you've got stuff coming from the top and the bottom. We got little kids throwing grenades at you and stuff like that.

John: So, you're trained on machine guns but your basic weapon is an M4.

Dan: Yeah, I had an M4.

John: Which you have with you.

Dan: At all times, yep.

John: And, if you receive fire during these patrols that is what you would--

Dan: It depends because like in a truck, in one truck you have a driver which does not leave the vehicle. You have your Vehicle Commander, which is basically he's in control of that whole vehicle. He dictates where the vehicles goes. You have two dismounts in the back and you have your turret gunner up top.

John: And, you could have been in any of these positions depending on the--

Dan: Usually your Vehicle Commander doesn't really change. I mean, that's your senior guy in your truck. Like, I used to rotate out, I used to rotate. Like driving all that time it gets monotonous. So, I'd rotate out every once in a while and be like, "Hey, you're driving and you're "in the back seat."

John: As you're Vehicle Commander what rank are you?

Dan: Usually you're a corporal. I was a corporal when I was a Vehicle Commander. And, you're pretty much, and the first time in Fallujah I was a driver, I was a Lance Corporal, I was an E3. So basically, like your, we call 'em non-ranks 'cause your non-ranks or your non-NCOs are gonna be your dismounts, your gunners, and stuff like that.

John: You've talked about some of the other weapons and their range and power and accuracy. What's an M4 like?

Dan: M4, basically it's for CQB, or close quarters combat. It's just a shorter version of the M-16. It's easier to clear rooms, it's 37:00easier to clear houses. It's a lot easier to handle in a city. You've got that big long M-16 A2.

John: Semi-automatic?

Dan: Yeah, there's a semi automatic but there's also a three round burst where it will shoot three rounds at the same time.

John: Did you hunt before?

Dan: I hunted a little bit, but I really have no time to hunt now.

John: So, I mean this is still a shorter version of the M16, still a very powerful weapon.

Dan: I personally think it's a little, the round is it goes too fast. 'Cause you can shoot somebody with an M16 and they're still running. Where with an M14 it's a 308 round, you shoot somebody with a 308 round they're gonna fall over and that's it. But, I think they're working on that, I don't know.

John: Any other particular incidents in this deployment in Fallujah, obviously your being wounded was the centerpiece of it. Anything 38:00else that you remember that really stands out?

Dan: There's a few, like I told you about that green Pontiac that blew up behind my truck. I remember we saw a guy with a video camera and actually we were on patrol. I still remember the sector, it was sector 13 in Fallujah if you have a Fallujah map I can show you. We were basically on patrol and we just stopped and it was near the Jolan district, it was out west, western Fallujah and we just happened to stumble upon this guy coming out of this house with a video camera. Well, video cameras they kind of raises suspicion with a video camera 'cause the insurgents like to videotape stuff. And, there wasn't really much going on that day. So, we're like, "Let's just snap him up." So, we basically cordoned off this alleyway. And, I had Lieutenant in my truck. And, we pulled into the alley. And 39:00so, the rest of the trucks basically cordoned off the alley. We had one north on the east side of alley. We had one north, we had one west, and then we had two trucks in the middle and we only had one pointing north on the west side of our alley. So, the south side of that western cordon was open. And, we were just about ready to move in there. I was backing the truck up, it was my truck and we were gonna cover the north or the south, sorry. And, it was just as we were backing up that's when that car came speeding up, here's this car speeding up the alleyway and it basically blew up 10 feet behind my truck. It knocked a 50 cal out of the panel and threw it on the ground. The 50 cal weighs about, it's either 126 or 128 pounds depending on the barrel. So, it basically just picked it up and threw it like a rag doll. I remember there were three little kids playing in the alley across from us. I remember looking back 'cause 40:00I basically fell out of the truck as this thing blew up. I saw all the Marines that were doing the search they were all on the ground and I remember thinking like how many people are dead here? And then, after the smoke cleared a little bit like most, 95% of them started stirring around so I knew most of 'em were okay. And, when I was out of the truck I looked back, just glanced back behind the alley and there was two spots on the wall, two kids have already been vaporized. And, I remember one kid running back and picking up an arm and running down the street to his mother. I went over to my buddy Ingram, he was laying on the ground. And, he basically cut the tip of his boot off and two of his toes. I remember seeing that. And, it was just, that stuff it's utter chaos is what it comes down to.

John: Did that attack by the car have anything to do with the man with the video camera?

Dan: Actually, we found out later that it did. He was actually on his way to video tape. I don't know if it was that car, but he was on his way to video tape some kind of IED or VBID or something like that.

John: So, he lasted through the blast.

Dan: Yeah, he lasted through the blast. We ended up pocking him, pocking this person into custody. And, we took it over to we call it jailbird was like our little detention center.

John: You weren't injured in that blast?

Dan: No, nope. My buddy Cox he was the turret gunner, the one behind the 50 cal. He actually took a piece of shrapnel, the safety glasses, the safety glasses stopped it. He took it right to the eye and the safety glasses stopped it.

John: Some safety glasses.

Dan: Yeah, it must have been, I don't know how it ever did but it did.

John: Okay, so that's Fallujah.

Dan: Well, you know, I might as well just go into it. There's one other particular IED that pretty much, I wouldn't say, it was a reality check. We were all the way up north, it was a little town out of Fallujah, it was called Sa-cal-wia. We were out in support of Gulf company. We were basically, we were in support of Gulf company doing patrols. It was on Trout, it was called Route Trout. We were patrolling this road all day. They stopped our convoy and they said they had an IED on the road. Okay, so we wait for EOD which is our Explosive Ordinance Disposal to come out. They come out and take care of it. So, we have it cordoned off. We're sitting there joking 43:00around having a good time, just bullshitting with each other. We ate an MRE. And, an hour later we were back on patrol. We were sitting there my buddy Cox who's usually our turret gunner but we had a Sergeant Adams with us that particular day. He was with us the whole deployment in Iraq. He was our Platoon Sergeant. So, we were sitting there talking. He's like, "Hey Cox," he's like, "Do you mind if "I get in the gun. "I haven't been in the gun since 29 Palms California." And, Cox is like, "Yeah, I could use a break, no problem." So, Sergeant Adams climbs up in there and we patrolled the same route up and down the road two, three more times. And, there's one thing you don't wanna do. You don't wanna make your presence too well known on one particular road. And, I turned back to the Cox when I was driving I said, "Man, like we're still driving up this road. "There must be something here or something "that we're 44:00looking for." He said, "Yeah, we are driving up and down this road "pretty many times." (coughs) So, we went up the road once more and then turn around and came back like we usually do. On the way back is actually when we hit a triple stack. A triple stack IED is three 155s. We didn't know what it was, I didn't know what it was. When you get hit with an IED it's hard to explain. It feels like all that air's sucked out of you. You don't know where you're at. You just smell VOR-DX. It's all dusty, it's mass confusion. So, after the smoke cleared in our truck everyone rogers up. I'm like, "Hey man, you okay, you good?" So, my buddy Birchfield is the Vehicle Commander. He's like, "Hey Zimpf, are you good?" I'm like, "Yeah man, I'm good." And then, I'm like, "Cox, you good?" He's like, "yeah," and we're like, "Hey, Sergeant Adams," and there was no response. So, we look up in the gun and he was kind of just slouched 45:00over in the gun up in the turret. And, we just thought he was knocked unconscious. At that point Cox was in the backseat and he saw one drop of blood come from the back of his Kevlar. Cox and Birchfield went to go get the Corp man and there I was 20 years old with this situation. So, I remember crawling up in the truck and taking his his Kevlar off and there was just like a massive amount of blood just hit my legs. And, basically pulled him out of the turret and he had about a quarter sized hole in the back of his head which he probably was already dead. But, your training kicks in and you just do whatever you can, there might be one second of hope. And, it felt like 20 minutes I was sitting there shaking before I did anything. And, it was probably like two seconds. And, you start 46:00wrapping his head and you look down and that's when I saw his lips turn blue and his eyes turn a pasty white. And, that's when I knew it was pretty much done. So, that actually wasn't really the hardest part. The hardest pat was actually coming, you don't have time to deal with this kind of stuff over there. It's just you move on. And, when you get back to the States his parents somehow found out who we were and they introduced and that was actually the hardest part was to meet his parents. Because, obviously they have questions for you.

John: Where was he from?

Dan: He was from Cary, North Carolina.

John: I'm wondering how we're doing on the time.

Jared: We have 15 minutes on this one.

John: So, we're 45 minutes through.

Jared: Yeah, 46, 46 minutes running through.

John: I mean, that's an incredible, I mean really difficult moment. I'm wondering, you say, you don't have time to deal with it, you just move on and then you get back to the States and meet his parents and speak with them and recount what happened and all that. But, it's gotta last longer, too. Do you think you still carry it now with you?

Dan: You're gonna carry that for the rest of you life. It's something you're never gonna forget. There's details I don't remember I did yesterday but there's details about that that I remember like it was yesterday. So, that's something you do carry with you. When you do get back, I mean, there's so much stuff that happens over there that it just, you basically just throw it on the back burner, throw it on the back burner, throw it on the back burner. You don't have time to deal with that stuff over there because if you deal 48:00with it there's no grieving period, you don't have a grieving period. You get stuff like that happening to you over there and there's no time for you to think about it. When you get back to the States you actually have time to think about it. And, that's where a lot of it hits you is when you come back. Like, when I got out of the Marine Corp that's all I did was have time to think. And so, getting out the Marine Corp, I mean, they say they try to transition you as easy as possible but I got out on a Friday so I had the weekend just like any other weekend, but Monday comes and you're looking for that structure, you're looking for that what do I do now? So basically, you're a Marine on Friday, Monday you're a civilian. What do you do?

John: Were you back home then pretty much right away?

Dan: Yep, yep I was back in Hellertown on that Friday, actually. I got out Friday at noon I was back in Hellertown by midnight and 49:00then that's it. They just, there you go.

John: I remember meeting you about a year, year and a half ago at the gym in Hellertown. It seems like to me now that you are pretty whole, solid. I guess what I'm wondering is you keep putting everything to the back burner, back burner 'cause of you're still out on the streets in these situations. Then, you come back and as you say you have time to deal with it but it seems like, at least from what I read is that there's some people aren't able to deal with it. They don't have the resources, they don't have the friends, the whatever. It seems to me, without knowing very well, that you did pretty well with that work. Can you say more about (mumbles) do that.

Dan: When I first got back I'd say, I still struggle with it. It just comes down to the fact of how well you hide it. I did struggle 50:00with it a lot when I got back. You usually tun to alcohol, which is what I did. I was probably drunk six days out of the week and that just amplifies everything. I did spend seven days in a mental institution. I had a lot of flashbacks when I got back. I used to tear up my parents house quite a bit. I was just thinking I was somewhere else, somewhere back in Fallujah somewhere. So, it definitely takes a toll on you, it definitely does that. I mean, there's not one day that go by that I don't think about something, it could be anything, a certain smell, something on the radio. There's a song you used to listen to over there, a certain road that you recognize that would bring you right back to where you just were. It could be something so simple as that. It could be so simple as just a comment that just brings you right back in over seas. What kind of grounded me from all that was I met my wife, actually. She really 51:00doesn't understand but she was always there for me. So, she did go to the VA with me. She went to counseling and stuff like that. And, she kind of made me like kind of like snap out it. It's like there's other things in life besides that stuff. So, I do owe a lot of credit to her for how I am now.

John: When did you meet her?

Dan: Right after I got out, actually I was still in the Marine Corp. I had three months left or so. She did help me out through.

John: And, how 'bout your dad? He'd been a Marine, had he seen--

Dan: No, he didn't see any. He was motor T. But, just that, it doesn't matter what MOS you were. For me, therapy isn't going to the VA and talking to a counselor or here take these pills, they'll make you feel better. It's more of I have a lot of Marine Corp friends 52:00that I still keep in contact with. I still talk to a lot of Marines and that's very therapeutic for anybody. That's why a lot of people do struggle with it, I think, is because they don't, once a lot of people get out of the Marine Corp that's it. They don't talk to any other Marines, they don't associate. My best friend, my best man at my wedding was a Marine. We grew up since sixth grade, I think we were best friends in sixth grade. And, I actually saw him in Fallujah. Some guy kicked my rack one day and I'm like, "What the hell." I look up and it was him. So, I actually saw him in Fallujah and we've been best friends since we were in sixth grade. So, I hang out with a lot. He kind of tells me stuff I tell him stuff. And, it just kind of clears your head.

John: You say that's the best therapy and that makes a lot of sense. But, in terms of the other is it your opinion that the Marine 53:00Corp and US Military in general has the resources in place that if you needed a different kind of help, needed this or that therapy that there's a way for you to fairly easily get what you need.

Dan: I find like for myself, I find it very easy to like go to the VA, I find it very easy. The help's there, you just gotta want to go and get that help. I mean, it's definitely there. It's a lot better than it was a number of years back. But, the help definitely is there and they are trying to do their best. There's a lot of veterans out there coming back with this and there's only a limited personnel to them, how many counselors there are to how many vets coming back from Iraq. There's a lot more vets coming back than there are counselors, but they are doing what they can to mitigate what they have coming back.

John: So, you talk about how just incidental things can set you back there, a song on the radio, a smell of whatever. What about 54:00seeing things in movies? I know things can send you back there, a song on the radio, a smell of whatever. What about seeing things in the movies or on television or something like that that are specifically about Iraq? Are you interested in seeing movies about that war or other similar wars more than you were before you went, less than you did before you went, about the same? I mean, does that have any special effect on you?

Dan: It definitely makes you remember things. But, I know there's some people that absolutely cannot watch it, they absolutely cannot look at it or something like that. I can deal with it a little bit, but it just makes you think a little more. I mean, I might have a 55:00good experience before I watch it, I might have a bad experience, it depends on the day, really. But, I'm not saying that I won't sit down and watch it. I mean, I've watched documentaries on stuff.

John: Do you play an video games?

Dan: Not really, no.

John: So, we're through Fallujah, you had a third deployment?

Dan: Yeah, I had a third deployment. I had actually a second deployment to Fallujah back in it was '07, Summer of '07. Yep, Summer of '07 I was in Fallujah for a second time and that was a complete 180 from what I was expecting. Nothing, seven months of patrolling the same road. And, absolutely, before I got hit with six IEDS, and in Fallujah I saw one from 200 yards away the second time and that was 56:00it. It was just a completely, completely different city from what I knew that first time.

John: What time now, Jared?

Jared: Now down to about four minutes.

John: Okay, I wanted to ask you about that. But, I'm just wondering if we should switch now. Would it be okay if we just put in a new tape?

Dan: Yeah, that's fine.

John: And, thanks again. Great, great. (mumbles) So, you were saying that it was completely different in your second deployment into Fallujah. Same road for six months?

Dan: Seven.

John: Seven months. Is this, as far as you remember, amidst the surge that was so, okay I'm a historian. And, what I know about the 57:00Iraq war is what I read in the paper and saw on the TV. And, there was this big dispute about whether Bush, president Bush should deploy more troops to Iraq to fight this, for counter insurgency, to fight the insurgency. He did do that in '07, I forget the month exactly when it started. What I also read was that with that surge that there an effort for Marines and soldiers to mix with the civilian population more, not so much always fall back to one's fortified camp but to spend more time out in streets. A little bit more language was given to Marines and soldiers and that there was a different sort of mindset that at least was given to some of the 58:00people there. Does that ring familiar at all to you in your second tour in Fallujah?

Dan: Second tour, I mean, I can't talk for all Iraq, I can speak for Fallujah 'cause I obviously saw it in '05 and I saw it again in '07. It was like 180 degree turn around from when I was there in '05. What happened we basically turned over control or started to to the Iraqi army. We let the Iraqi army take care of patrolling their streets. We let the Iraqi police patrol their sectors. We started letting them man posts and stuff like that. So, that was part of the turn around of Fallujah. What we did was, how we did that we 59:00basically for a few months what we said, "There will be no driving "in the city of Fallujah, absolutely no driving "except for coalition forces. "If you need to go somewhere you can "take public transportation." And, what we did was we sectored off the city. We put big Texas barriers. We basically made different sectors of the whole city. We made, for counter insurgency one of the key elements is freedom of movement. You control their freedom of movement, they're freedom of exporting, importing weapons you control basically them. So, that's basically what we did. We basically controlled their whole freedom of movements. I forgot how many sectors were we set up in the city, but there was one way in, one way out. And, they were manned by Iraqi police with a Marine and maybe an Iraqi Army. And, they were doing vehicle searches and we had almost like a neighborhood watch kind of thing set up, too where the actual 60:00civilians would watch their neighborhood. So, that was later on in '07 right about half way through my deployment. In the beginning there we still had control of everything until we got that kicked off.

John: So, this would have involved more contact with Iraqi people, civilians. What was your general sense of them? I mean, to generalize I guess is itself sort of wrong, like a problem or whatever, but do you have any impressions of the Iraqi civilians in Fallujah? Did you get to know any?

Dan: Not really, no, the only Iraqi I really got to know was my interpreter Khalid. I got to know him pretty well. I actually still get some random phone call from him every once in a while.

John: He's back in Baghdad?

Dan: Ah yeah, he's back in Baghdad. He's trying to come to the United States. But, I told him I would never let him here, so. I said, 61:00"You're staying over there, buddy." (laughs) He said he wants to be my neighbor, but I don't think that's gonna happen. (laughs) But, that's pretty much the closest like Iraqi that I've actually had a lot of contact with. 'Cause most like you PSYOPs and stuff like that they would have more contact with the Iraqi people then we would. I mean, we're out there, we're definitely out there and we do make contact but it's not sit there and talk like how you're doing 'cause we're basically focused on the task at hand.

John: And, all the time that you're not out on patrol or your down time eating and relaxing and the like is always back out of the city. You don't go out to restaurants or bars or anything like that. There's no leaves of any sort or like that.

Dan: Nah, no there was nothing. When you go back, we went back to Camp Baharia if we went back at all. We were back at Camp Baharia and we had probably like one day off a month or something like that. I forget what it was.

John: What would you do back in Camp Baharia?

Dan: The first time basically when we were actually back at Camp Baharia the first time it was clean weapons, reload mags, consolidate ammo. The second time I was there it was more like go to the gym, make a phone call home, go run, smoke a cigar outside, and bullshit with your buddies.

John: There's no alcohol?

Dan: No, nope all of Fallujah, Baghdad there is alcohol, but Fallujah is absolutely dry. Fallujah in Arabic means city of Mosques so it's kind of like a holy city. There's over, I forget how many mosques in there. There's over 75 to 100 mosques in Fallujah.

John: But, as long as Marine policy goes are you allowed to drink at any time?

Dan: No, not in Iraq, no, nope.

John: I mean, that's a big change, for 20 year old men, I mean. The standard thing is you go out for beers and so like for months without anything to drink that's a big, big change. It seems like Marines always smoke cigarettes when they're out on patrol or in the photographs I've seen there's just, no matter whether you were some marathon runner in high school whatever. How does that work? Is it a tension thing?

Dan: Yeah, it's a tension thing. I never smoked before I went into the Marine Corp. I am now a smoker. (laughs) Yeah, it's like a tension thing. You get hit with an IED you get in a fire fight you're like, "Shit, give me a cigarette." That's the first thing that 64:00comes to your mind. I don't know why, but it does. You could never smoke before in your life and you can get into one fire fight or you're hit with one IED and you're like "dammit, give me a cigarette, "someone give me a cigarette." "You don't smoke man." "I know just give me one." That's usually how it works.

John: And, it helps in a way, I mean it works.

Dan: It kind of does 'cause in the Marine Corp it does seem like everybody smokes. So, it's kind of like a social gathering. "What are you doing? You wanna go out for a cigarette?" "Yeah, let's go out for the cigarette." And, you just go out and talk with your buddies. It's kind of like a tension kind of thing, too. I don't know why, like when I hit the landmine. When I hit the landmine I had no floor boards. I looked down I saw dirt. Both my front tires were 400 yards down the road. And, I looked down I go, "Oh shit." And, my buddy Brian Engler, he's from Pittsburgh he comes up and I looked at him I go, "Brian, are my feet still there?" And he goes, "Shut the hell up," and he puts a cigarette in my mouth and lit my thing. He's like, "You're fine." So, "Thanks man," that's just how we are.

John: And, you're even able to fight while smoking.

Dan: Yeah, I don't know how that works, but we do.

John: That's what I noticed. So, the second tour of Fallujah is quiet compared to what you described during the first tour. It's without incident, basically. What happens after that, then.

Dan: After I got back from Fallujah the second time I only had oh man maybe three months left if that. Yeah, I think I only had three or four months left. I got back and basically it was like time for me to like check out. So, I started the check out process. I did my SEPS and TAPs separation and I forget what TAPs stand for. But, it's like basically preparing you for the civilian world. They teach 66:00you how to do a resume, apply for jobs, all that stuff. Try to tell you how to fit in the civilian world. And, after that you turn your gear in. And, I got FAP'd out. I was actually an instructor over for Division. I instructed over there on IED trainer, actually. And, I gave like reservists and battalions the classes on IEDs right before I got out.

John: Where was that?

Dan: It was over at Division, it's called the DTC Division Training Center. So, I actually worked for Second Marine Division.

John: Where though?

Dan: Camp Lejeune.

John: Camp Lejeune

Dan: Yeah, yep. So, a lot of people got FAP'd out to like Military police. They go stand gate guard. I was a Sergeant so I didn't have to go stand gate guard.

John: When were you promoted to Sergeant?

Dan: December of '07, December of 07. And then, I was Platoon Sergeant for a while, too. I was basically in charge of 25 other guys.

John: Was that during Fallujah number two?

Dan: Yes, yep.

John: That's a big responsibility. So, by this time you're what about 23?

Dan: Yeah, I'm 23.

John: 23.

Dan: I'm the old man of the platoon at 23.

John: 'Cause they're young people, right?

Dan: Yeah, most of them are 18, 19, 20. Yeah, but you're 23 but they look at you like you're 40. It's like you have all this experience and knowledge and stuff like that. And, their 18, 19, 20 coming in to the Marine Corp the way they don't know nothing. The experience isn't there. They know what's in a book, that's about it. I'm 23, I'm only a few years older than they are, but I'm up here and they're down here. It's just experience, that's all it is.

John: How old are you now?

Dan: I'm 26, I'll be 27 at the end of this month.

John: How old do you feel?

Dan: What day is it? Some days I feel older than others. But, other days I feel like I'm a 10 year old kid again. So, it depends, it depends on what me and the wife are doing. She says I'm 16, but you can't go by what she says.

John: We're talking with her next. (laughs) So, your dad was in the Marines. You were in the Marines. If you and your wife have children is that something that you want for your son?

Dan: Oh, absolutely. Where's the paper at, I'll sign it right now. He's not even born yet. (laughs) Yeah, I think so. I think it's definitely a good, it makes you grow up a lot and it makes you a lot more mature than most kids your age. I mean, I think it's a good 69:00experience. I think everybody should at least go through bootcamp. I can understand if they don't wanna do the whole war thing. But, at least go through bootcamp. It provides that sense of responsibility. You have a sense of responsibility. You have a structure, that's what life's all about structure and responsibility. If you don't have that then you're not gonna succeed too much.

John: So, that part must have stayed with you also.

Dan: Yeah, yep. If I have my mind set to it it's gonna get done. I've been lacking on the cleaning a little bit than I was in the Marine Corp, but you can ask my wife. I don't clean as much as I used to. That's kind of went away, before I was a clean freak like an OCD kind of thing. Like, I had to clean like everyday. But now if I have a few socks it doesn't bother me as much.

John: That order was something you wanted.

Dan: Yep.

John: Yeah, yeah. So, a lot of people have joined the Marines and there hasn't been a war. There hasn't been any real action. And, 70:00I've heard mixed responses to that or read about them. I mean, are you, it's sort of a weird question but are you looking back at it in a sense glad that there was the battle part of it along with the discipline and the structure that the Marines gave you?

Dan: Yeah, I mean I'm glad I did it. I mean, I wouldn't change it for what I did or anything for the world, but even if there wasn't a war going on I'd still join the Marine Corp. There's no question about it. I mean, it's a good thing for younger kids to get into especially if they don't know where they're going. And, the military is always a good answer for it. It kind of gives you that sense of security, a steady paycheck. It might not be much but it's a steady paycheck.

John: Have you been back to a high school reunion since you left the Marines?

Dan: No, nope.

John: How do people seem who know you from high school or from before? Do they treat you with respect, I imagine?

Dan: Yeah, actually yeah like people I actually meet now they've been actually like really good, like they're very respectful and