Evan Reibsome

Evan: I was born in Williamsport, Pennsylvania. It's Central Pennsylvania. Little League World Series is the claim to fame. Outside of that there's not much else going on there, necessarily. I was born in 82. And, yeah, I was raised, my family was a military family. I have a lot of service members, so I remember, like, growing up, my uncles were all Marines. My grandfather was a Marine, by great-uncle was a Marine. So, I remember them coming home and being in their uniforms, and kind of looking up to that, and seeing them more as like figures. I didn't really know them 'cause, you know, they were obviously in the military at the time, so, you know, they would just come home occasionally, but it was always, like, pretty exciting when they came home.

Interviewer: How would you describe your childhood? Any particular points, memories that come to mind?

Evan: I would say, a really exciting childhood. I lived out in the woods, so I had lots of freedom and was able to go explore and have fun. 1:00And, I think typical childhood.

Interviewer: Did you hunt?

Evan: I did hunt. I did hunt for, you know, three or four years. I would say 12 or 13, that time frame, up to maybe 16, but then I just stopped hunting. I don't know, I was busy with school and stuff, and then I just never picked it back up. You know, it just wasn't something that was interesting anymore.

Interviewer: Did you play sports?

Evan: I would say, occasionally. I was on the wrestling team, but I wasn't that good of a wrestler. I was on football team, and I was okay at football, but it was just never something that I pursued, I think, like actively. I had a job in high school and that took up a lot of my time.

Interviewer: And, so did you go to Williamsport High School? Is that the name of it?

Evan: No, when I say Williamsport, actually it was a small town outside of Williamsport, Montoursville, Pennsylvania. I went to 2:00Montoursville for my elementary and middle school years, and then I moved to a town called Montgomery, Pennsylvania, or Montgomery, which is again, these are all kinda like satellite towns around Williamsport, so I was at Montgomery for my final high school years.

Interviewer: And, what year did you graduate from Montgomery?

Evan: 2000.

Interviewer: And, did you then go into the military, work, go to college, what followed high school?

Evan: Yeah, I had joined the military prior to graduation. So, once I graduated, then I went off to basic training, and went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, for basic training, and after that I stayed there for my AIT, which is the individual schooling, and I was trained as a Forward Observer, So actually 13 Foxtrot is the nomenclature, or the term. Yeah, it was a really great MOS for me. Again, I was outdoors. You're 3:00kind of navigating with Maps, and doing parts of things that I liked, but then we practiced looking for targets with binoculars and calling in artillery and stuff like that.

Interviewer: So, when you say the military, this is the Army?

Evan: This is the Army National Guard, actually. So, you know the difference being that I was an employee of the state, first. And, you know, again, my whole family is Marines.

Interviewer: Why not the Marines?

Evan: Yeah, it's a great question. I think I was really pragmatic. I kind of approached it and wanted things out of the military, rather than just giving my service, I wanted an exchange going on. And, ultimately the Army could offer the best, and the National Guard offered me the opportunity to continue to go to school, while I went and served in the military. And, I liked that. I wanted it all at the same time. I was kind of impatient. The idea of doing four years active duty, before going into college, I didn't want to wait that long. So, 4:00that was a big draw, and then the funding was really lucrative, at least for an 18 year old. I didn't have a way to pay for college, so they had, you know, the G.I. Bill, and different tuition payments and stuff that made it affordable.

Interviewer: Just, if you could say another word about how the timing works out in terms serving in the Army National Guard, and going to college. How many months for each of those in a given year?

Evan: So, the National Guard was just one weekend a month, and then two weeks in the summer. Maybe three weeks, depending where you go. So, one time, I went to, like, Fort Drum, New York. One time, I went out the National Training Center, out in California. Those might be a little bit longer, going out that far. But, basically it was one weekend a month and then some kind of two week course or activity in the 5:00summer, and that an eight year agreement. So, what was considered a six and two, six years being I have to actively show up, one weekend a month. And, then two years, being inactive. So, I don't have to show up anymore, but I guess they could call me back if they wanted to. Kind of like a stop-loss situation.

Interviewer: With the provision that if needed, your being part of the Army National Guard, you could be called to active duty and service, as national security demanded.

Evan: Yeah, absolutely. Again, I didn't envision that happening. Like, I thought, you know floods, or something like that, more domestic. Not that you could be activated for, you know, riots, or something like that, but I didn't envision that. I thought floods, tornadoes, something like that. So, I was shocked when I was activated for the Operation Iraqi Freedom. And, again that was kind of unsuspected. 6:00Again, my whole family is Marines, if you want somebody to go, I felt like the Marines who be the ones that, you know... My brother was someone I looked up to, he's four years older. He more of your traditional prototypical kind of military person that I would imagine. I didn't anticipate myself going to Iraq.

Interviewer: I want to get to that, but to stay back in the very 2000s, do you recall, I imagine you do, September 11, 2001? Just in personal terms, any particular part of the memory that stands out and whether your being part of military informed your experience of September 11, 2001.

Evan: Yeah, I was an undergraduate a Lock Haven University, so I actually received a phone call from my mom, who said, she was obviously 7:00upset, turn on the news. And, I didn't know what was going on. I think even when I turned it on, I think it was after the first plane, so at that point, I didn't understand what was going on. I thought it was an accident or something. So, that was my first experience with it. But, then, yeah, being in the military, this became, over the course of weeks or months, this became important news for the military, at least for my unit. People were, I hesitate to use the word excited, but I think there was an urgency felt at the unit, kind of this readiness of getting ready, maybe, to be called up. Again, not knowing where we were going to, necessarily, but the expectation that there was going to be a U.S. response to somebody. Again, that being a moment of excitement.

Interviewer: So your unit, though, was not called up for Afghanistan, is that correct?

Evan: That's correct. I was not called up for that.

Interviewer: There part of this early excitement right after September 11th, it could of been, that is your unit could of been called up for Afghanistan. Was there some uncertainty about that, at first, because you might be, or did you know from pretty much the beginning that Afghanistan wasn't going to be a possibility for you?

Evan: Maybe at the time. I was a low rank. I think I was PFC, so maybe people at my unit knew we weren't going to Afghanistan, but I wasn't aware of that. Again, the military is like rumor mill. I mean there's so many rumors flying, all the time. So, I think only showing up once 9:00a month, it was new information every month. And, yeah, it was uncertain, at least from my perspective If we were going, when we were going. It was just a state of constant kind of readiness.

Interviewer: So, in the mean time, you're continuing your studies at Lock Haven. What was your major?

Evan: Initially, I was like a criminal justice, or like a sociology. I think it was sociology, then I switched to criminal justice. And, at that time, right before I ended up going to Iraq, I switched to an English degree. I just kinda fell in with, what I would consider, the right crowd. I am an English PhD Candidate now, or soon to be candidate. You know, I just fell in love with English, and that as a different trajectory, then, for my schooling.

Interviewer: So, describe the timing of you being called up for active duty in Iraq. Is it for Operation Iraqi Freedom, itself, the the 10:00initial invasion, or the occupation?

Evan: Yeah, it was occupation, so I found out. You know there weren't necessarily rumors always floating around, so I was uncertain whether I was going to get deployed, or my unit was going to get deployed. And, then I remember sometime before Thanksgiving of 2003, basically being told we're getting deployed. We're being activated. So, I remember having Thanksgiving dinner with one of my friends, and kind of sharing that news. And, it was pretty somber. That being said, again, I was excited. This is what we trained for, to some extent. Again, even though I said earlier, like I never envisioned going overseas for a war. There still was adrenaline and excitement, and an expectation of wanting to go. So, that was in 2003. And then, I think it as like early 2004, we actually were activated and sent to Fort Dix to start 11:00training, to mobilize. And, then we actually deployed in March of '03, into Kuwait.

Interviewer: '03 or '04?

Evan: 04, I'm sorry. Yeah, thank you. So, there was like two months, maybe, of training at Fort Dix.

Interviewer: What did that training involve?

Evan: Yeah, well, I was a Forward Observer, and, again, during the occupation you don't Forward Observers anymore. I'm not going to be calling artillery under individuals, or enemies, so they retrained us for military police officers, more of an occupational force. So, that was the primary retraining. Different techniques and strategies that they were using at the time, or people that had come back from the war, that have given advice. Stuff like that.

Interviewer: So, you get to Iraq in March 2004? Still as a Private First Class?

Evan: I was a Specialist, I believe, then.

Interviewer: Specialist? And, what was the official name of your unit? This is the Pennsylvania National Guard.

Evan: Yeah, I was the 1st of the 109th, which is out of Kingston. Kingston, Pennsylvania, by Scranton, Wilkes-Barre area. We were actually attached to a unit called Bravo 2nd, 103, and they were part of the 89th MP Brigade. So, we attached to them, and then we were stationed in Western Baghdad.

Interviewer: As of March 2004, you were stationed in Western Baghdad, and how long was your tour of duty?

Evan: A year, approximately, one year. I had a leave in there. I went home for a leave after seven, six months, maybe seven months.

Interviewer: How many times were you deployed?

Evan: Just once.

Interviewer: Once. So, what was happening in Western Baghdad for you and for those you saw from March 2004, to what must've been through the winter of 2005?

Evan: So, I was at Camp Slayer, which was part of... It was know BIA, the Baghdad International Airport. So, it's a little bit, when I say Western Baghdad, it's maybe five miles outside of Baghdad. And, Camp Victory was across the street. That's the major base, or it was a major base there, the Victory Complex. So, when I was there, we were part of the ISG group. It was called Iraq Survey Group, and we were looking for the chemical biological nuclear weapons. So, we would escort civilians to sites. At the time, the idea was that there were 14:00facilities Saddam Hussein had that were dual purpose, so that they could be used for military purposes, but then they also had like a civilian front, so to speak, so you'd go to like paint factories because we thought, here's civilian site, but then they really might be doing something else. So, we went around and traveled Iraq, parts of Iraq, at least, looking for these sites. We had tips and you know, suggestions, and the intelligence part of military would give us missions and we'd go carry those out.

Interviewer: So, as a Specialist, were you aware of what was going on in terms of this mission? I mean this is a huge part of the Iraqi War. Were you given the reason that the United States gave in launching the invasion of Iraq? A good part of legitimacy of the operation 15:00hinged on finding weapons of mass destruction. As a specialist, did you have a sense of that point and your role in it?

Evan: Yeah, I think so. I mean I think there was... Again, I think pride or excitement that we thought this was an important mission, like they're saying. And, that, yeah, we were going to justify the war and legitimize our invasion. So, there was, initially at least, an awareness. And, again, I knew the reasons why we went, and those reason were somewhat blurred, maybe in the military perspective, but I knew some of the general reasons why we were going. Or, I thought I did. I would say, as the mission continued, there's a little bit of disillusionment that they didn't have these resources. Again, our intelligence community wanted to say they had 'em, but I saw no proof 16:00that they had anything capable of that, at all, any type of sophisticated weaponry. So, that's difficult I think, after three months into the tour, to suddenly realize the reason why you're fighting, like the cause for it, is maybe not quite as accurate, as initially thought.

Interviewer: Related to that, in terms of your perceptions of this success, or lack there of, of that mission, are you back at base getting a lot of information by way of American media? By way of emails, by way of other connections to the United States that is outside of the 17:00U.S. military? With that question, I'm interested in what base life was like when you were actually on duty.

Evan: I don't think I had that much access to other information. Certainly I had letters home, and stuff like that, but my parents wouldn't have wanted me to know anything that was going on back home if it, maybe, there was undermining, of it was questioning the mission, so I don't think we talked about that. And, certainly there were newspapers and stuff on base, I could have access to. But, I know there wasn't much internet access at the time. I had some phone calls that I made home, but they were like six, maybe more than that. Maybe six or a dozen phones on base for 5,000 men and women, so I mean it's hard to get a phone call home, at the time. Again, I think they make strides 18:00to provide internet access when I was leaving, and people had much more ability then. And again, I was contacting once a week, I could call home if I wanted to wait. But, I didn't actively pursue those. I just found it harder, you know, to call home, and kinda go through those phone conversations when you can't really talk about much. Because you know they certainly... There are restrictions, or they don't want you talking about missions. So, I don't think I had that much of awareness outside of the military, and some of that is personal. Like, again, I wanted to just kind of be in the... Kind of shelter myself from those other voices, and just stay focused. But, part of it I think though is just also kind of the technological limitations, whether internet access or phone access.

Interviewer: Were you aware of Abu Ghraib? In that spring of '04 is when it broke as a story and the photographs of the detainees being 19:00abused, were released. Did that hit you through the media, through word of mouth, both perhaps, or? Do you remember that moment?

Evan: Yeah, we ended up changing missions probably midway through our tour, and I just operated different military police functions. And, one of those functions would be to take convoys to Abu Ghraib. So, I we were very much aware of those incidences. You know, and we would take people form Abu Gharib, I believe, to medical communities if they had to go to the hospital, so we were transporting individuals, or taking mail to them. So, I was in that area. Abu Gharib is not terribly far away from the Baghdad International Airport. So, yeah I was aware of it. From what I remember is, we were pretty upset, thought it made our mission harder. Having these photos get released, or these 20:00behaviors going on, you end up making more enemies, understandably people were upset. So, we were concerned a tax would go up.

Interviewer: Back to camp life, can you remind me, again, the name of where you were based?

Evan: Yeah, Camp Slayer.

Interviewer: Slayer. What is that like, as a place, you said 5,000 men and women? Is it secure?

Evan: Yeah, I think so. They seem very secure. Occasionally, I sat up, and would sit on, not guard towers, it was like a hill at the center of the base, and we would sit up there with night vision, looking for mortar attacks 'cause we were getting harassed, mortar attacks. It's just harassment, trying to wake us up in the middle of the night. So, they had us sit up there and try to spot them. But, for the most part, I think, it was really secure.

Interviewer: And, is it comfortable in terms living quarters, but what would you do in free time that you would have at Camp Slayer? Was 21:00there recreational facilities of any kind, or what was camp like?

Evan: Yeah, it was... You know I hesitate to use the word good, but it was as best it could be, I think. I had air conditioning, which is really wonderful after missions. And, you know people obviously, in the invasion, they were a completely different kind of war experience. They didn't have that, necessarily. So, at night I was able to come home, get a shower, we had running water, which was really nice. There was a gym on base, so I was able to lift a lot, which is what most of the guys did for downtime. People had TVs and computers with them. And, I think people likely had video games. I didn't have a video game system with me, but I know next door was like a rec center that they 22:00had built, or at least remodeled a pre-existing building. I think people would play like Madden tournaments over there and stuff. And, there was a PX on base. You could go over there and buy basic stuff, basic supplies. A really wonderful dining hall. Part of the thing being be like going around the country looking for nuclear biological and chemical weapons is got to eat at different chow halls, which seems like a weird thing, but we were always excited to compare chow halls at different bases. But, our chow hall was really wonderful, good food. Again, I know I was out of Fallujah once, on a mission, and I think the Marines had some pretty bad chow halls. (chuckling) so, yeah I felt really lucky, from my experience. As far as the base I was on, the resources I had.

Interviewer: No alcohol, no bars, is that correct?

Evan: No alcohol, no bar. Super Bowl Sunday, actually, we had beer. I don't know why Super Bowl Sunday. And, they told us we couldn't have 23:00beer, but by then, people were already getting beer. I don't know if our platoon didn't know, or, like, our unit didn't know that there was going to be alcohol served, but then, I know, we got to the chow hall, and they said we were allowed to have two beers a piece, which was big news for everybody, but then I think, like, as we were drinking and eating, or something, we received information that weren't allowed to. They put an end to it.

Interviewer: Over the past several decades, women have been integrated into the U.S. Army more and more. Can you describe what it was like in terms of relations between men and women, and women's role within the U.S. Army, as you experienced it at that camp, and other ways?

Evan: Yeah, I didn't interact with too many women, actually. My MOS initially was a 13 Foxtrot, which was a combat MOS. And, I believe when I was doing that, I don't know if women had access to the MOS's yet, those jobs. So, you know when I went to basic training, I didn't see 24:00women at camp, there were no women attached to my unit. There certainly were women in Theater, doing the same jobs we were doing, whether it was like turk gunners, drivers, whatnot. So, you know they were in the same combat roles I was in, if not, more exposed. Again, I was a driver, not a gunner. But, I didn't see them on my base too often.

Interviewer: What vehicle did you usually drive, in these missions?

Evan: Yeah, I had just a Humvee. So, when we first arrived in Theater, we had like soft skin Humvee, so no doors. You took those doors off, so you had higher visibility. But, then IEDs was common weapon used, most feared weapon. So, as quickly as we could. You know the military tried to get Upper Armor Humvee to the units, everybody wanted those. So, I don't know exactly, three months into the tour maybe, everybody 25:00had those Upper Armor Humvees.

Interviewer: What was the main gun on the Humvee that you drove?

Evan: Primarily, the 50 caliber machine gun. We had the saul with us, as well. I'm sure there were moments when we used the saul instead, but I don't know why. I think primarily we used the 50 caliber, just for intimidation factor. It's a really big weapon. It sounds really intimidating when it fires. And, the idea was to make a hard target, to look intimidating, to look imposing.

Interviewer: And, were you attacked often in your Humvee?

Evan: I wouldn't say often. I wanna say, maybe four times. Four explosions of different types. But, that was it for me, personally, if I had to count, maybe three times actually. Other teams, or other individuals in my platoon, they certainly were engaged in small arm fire, 26:00more coordinated attacks. Then one instance where, it was definitely a pre-planned attack, sophisticated attack, but I never encountered that.

Interviewer: So, to my understanding, this is the time, Spring of '04, or early '05, where IEDs are evolving into a very effective weapon. They would be hidden and exploded and sometimes followed, as you say, by a coordinated attack. If American troops come to help people injured by the initial explosion, then small arms fire, or second explosions would follow. Rarely, is it correct to say, in a sort of a pitched battled, as you might imagine from other wars, but it's still a type of gorilla war, or small arms fire from buildings? It's a 27:00very... You're in an urban environment, obviously, in Western Baghdad, on city streets, and is that where in this four occasions... Did you have a sense of each time where the IEDs were hidden? Can you...

Evan: So one time was actually outside of Abu Ghraib. We were driving back from Abu Ghraib, we had left and were going back to our base, and there was an overpass and think there was, I'm trying to remember the acronym now. The Explosive Ordinance Team was out there, EOT, and they were investigating what looked to be a suspicious object that was underneath an overpass, and this was a really common tactic. They 28:00would place something that was very overt, or very conspicuous to get people to pay attention to that. So, when we were there, we decided to turn around and go back to Abu Ghraib, and there was like a median, here, and like a path through it, and I went past that one, and then went to the next one, and I crossed and was fine, but the Humvee behind me took the first one and drove over a landmine, and blew up the front of their vehicle. And, then we all took off and went back to Abu Ghraib. That Humvee was really fortunate. It was an Upper Armor Humvee. I don't know what kind of mine it was, but basically the explosion went directly upward, so that helped, obviously, with the Upper Armor Humvee protecting his legs, no one was injured. So, that would be one incidence, but that was a common tactic again, setting up this decoy IED, so you're susceptible whether you stop, and they'd have daisy chained IEDs next to you, or you know something else going on 29:00drawing your attention. So, very smart. That was one. I think once we were lost in a neighborhood. I think we were lost and kinda circling around an area, which of course is dangerous when you're kinda of loitering in one area. And, we were driving and it was a small IED. I mean I heard the boom, but I didn't even... It was happening behind me when it went off in the convoy. Everybody was fine from that. Again, the worst part was, I think, after it happened we got stuck in traffic in kind of like individuals milling about in a really small alleyway, tall buildings. It's not a situation, you know, you wanna get out of that. My third one, it actually wasn't an IED attack, it was a building explosion. We went and secured a paint factory. It was in Baghdad. I don't know exactly where in Baghdad, anymore, and I was just pulling security. And, for whatever reason, I don't know, the fumes, maybe, I'm not quit sure, but something ignited after we were in 30:00the building and I think they had stopped it once, and then it ignited again, and then basically it got out of control. They yelled run, so everybody kinda just scrambled and then the building blew up. Pretty large explosion, so I don't know exactly, I think three people died I think, in that explosion, and then a couple were wounded. So, when we had 20 guys there, maybe on the site, when you lose a third of the guys, it was a pretty devastating attack at time. And, that was April 26, so I was only in Theater, maybe a month and a half. So, for someone new, it was really shocking. You know a surprise I guess, you kinda think you're somewhat invincible, and then to see a devastating explosion quickly. Just troubling, traumatic. Yeah.

Interviewer: To what extent did you interact with Iraqi people?

Evan: I would say not as much as some other MOSs. I didn't do like foot patrols. When you're on a foot patrol maybe you're trying to get information from individuals. But, primarily when we went and looked at sites for weapons, we were trying to do like a small footprint. We didn't want to draw attention to us, from the public. So, we'd have really small coordinates. We would keep people away from us. We didn't want to talk to individuals, and then try to get in and get out, as quickly as possible. So, I didn't interact that often with the civilian population. When I did, typically, certain roads they knew our base was there, so they would line up and like beg for food. You know we would throw them MREs, or throw them water. And, then certainly in the Green Zone. We go down to Baghdad, we did lots of mission there to 32:00get diplomats or high ranking military officers that had meetings, we would take them down to the Green Zone, and then we would interact with Iraqis there, who were trying to sell us stuff. You have a lot of kids selling DVDs, primarily black market DVDs, or I don't know what else, a variety of trinkets or media.

Interviewer: Do you have any distinct impressions and memories of Iraqis, as a people? It's a huge question. Obviously a complex history and culture, but anything striking from the perspective of a 20 something person from Williamsport, Pennsylvania, meeting people on the other side of the world?

Evan: Yeah, I think, it depends where at. So the Green Zone, for instance, those individuals, obviously they have a monetary incentive to 33:00be really friendly because they're trying to sell us stuff, they're trying to sell us DVDs and stuff. But, they really were Americanized, or wanted to be Americanized, or at least appeared to be Americanized. So, you know, they would have name brand clothes on, or maybe some name brand clothes on. They would try to talk to you and show you different words that they new in English. I didn't know Arabic at the time, and I don't, so we would be doing our best to communicate, but they would want to show off, you know the young kids, they would want to show off the the swear words they knew. And, I think they were really pleasant and enjoyable. You know, young boys and girls, primarily boys I guess. They seem really nice. And, I think outside of the city, when we would drive and encounter civilians, I think something that was shocking to me, I guess, just kinda their poverty. Their degree of poverty. I live a sheltered life in Central Pennsylvania. I mean you see poverty in the U.S., but it's a different type of poverty. Or, at least a different type that I was exposed to. So, I mean yeah, these 34:00were next to Saddam's palaces, these were huts. You know we put sanctions on Iraq, and it just didn't seem to affect him that much. It certainly affected his people, but they were desperate, I think to some degree.

Interviewer: Were you given any type of rudimentary language, training at Fort Dix before you were deployed? Basic phrases of hello, and stop, and so forth.

Evan: Yeah, basic commands. You know basic commands. I think it's such an accelerated course, training. They try to tell you as much as they can, as quickly as they can. So, primarily like commands of different orders, put your hands up. I don't know. Step forward, stuff like that. But, then they do try to give some cultural information, some cultural literacy to try to explain, like this is offensive to 35:00them. Maybe don't do this. Or, this is appropriate. Or, if they ask you this, this is not offensive, they're just being friendly. So, they would try as best they could. But again, for one month of training at Fort Dix, I don't know exactly what it was, two months maybe, it's quite a culture shock. So you learn as you go. And, most of the Iraqis I did encounter, again, that I was on a talking basis with, they speaking in English, more than I was speaking to them in their language.

Interviewer: Did you have any encounter, any occasion to see the Religion of Islam as you were in Baghdad? Buildings, hearing people praying, any memories of that part of Iraqi culture?

Evan: Yeah, I never saw the inside of a Mosque, but we'd see them driving. They looked really beautiful. There were always concern for us 36:00because we always heard rumors, and again I don't know how accurate they were, but that weapons were being cached there, or attacks could be happening there because of concerns that we were restricted because of rules of engagement. So, Mosques were worrisome when we would see them driving. But, they seem like beautiful buildings. They stand out because, I think, for the most part they don't have skyscrapers there, that I saw, so these are maybe some of the taller buildings, and then near our base we would them praying. You know they pray multiple times in the day. So, we would hear them. I mentioned when I would sit on the hill top and look for mortar rounds being fired, I mean, they would start praying very early in the morning. Very loud, where they broadcast it. But, that was my only experience.

Interviewer: You had two primary missions, then, within your deployment. The escorting officials and others looking for weapons of mass 37:00destruction. Then the second one, escorting people to, transporting people to and from Abu Ghraib and to and from the Green Zone. So, in your memory of this year of deployment, is there a fairly flat line in terms of danger, of activity, of your work and service during your deployment?

Evan: Yeah, I think, you know we were by, it was called Route Irish at the time. I don't know the actual name of the road, but it was the road going from BIA, the Baghdad International Airport, to Iraq. It was a really dangerous road at the time, so...

Interviewer: Isn't it Baghdad (mumbles) Ambush Alley, or not alley, but there's that really well know road, with the airport at one end.

Evan: That's the road. That's the same road. So, yeah, it's maybe a five mile stretch between Baghdad and the airport, maybe, approximately. You know attacks certainly picked up when we were there, these IED attacks. And, you know it was all timing. The difficult thing I guess. The effects of IED attacks, it's just complete luck. So you would just drive as fast as you possibly could on that road and just hope nothing happened. So, the attacks definitely picked up. I think eventually, over the course of months, we just bulldozed the whole road and paved it, so the median just disappeared. Concrete went everywhere, and I think that lowered attacks. But, I don't know season by season, if the attacks, when they went up, but there was always the feeling that it was getting worse. Again, it just seemed like 39:00the attacks were always picking up. It was more common to get attacked, or at least to see attacks, or to arrive two minutes after an attack happened. Or, to hear on the radio, a minute after you went past something, an attack happened. So, I think, certainly the anxiety grew, and I think partly that was a response to the Theater, but partly I think that's just a response to being active for that long. You start getting more cautious, you start thinking, it's been ten months, or it's been nine months. You know you start looking toward the end date and maybe exaggerating a little bit, the danger. I know when we were getting ready to leave, car bombs were becoming more prominent, which IEDs are terrifying, but car bombs are extremely worrisome, for obvious reasons. A bigger bomb. So, I know they were like putting up barriers on on-ramps to make cars kind of serpentine to prevent cars from speeding into convoys, as easily, but these were all pretty 40:00terrifying. Again, that was the biggest threat at the time. IEDs and then car bombs, more so than like RPGs or small arms fire.

Interviewer: So, can you describe the end of your deployment, where you went after Iraq, and how your discharge gradually unfolded?

Evan: So, after... We flew to, I wanna say to Germany, maybe briefly, and then flew into the United States. I believe we were diverted in our flight. I think there was too much snow. I believe we were supposed to go to Philadelphia. We were supposed to go somewhere near Fort Dix, but there was a snow storm, so we were diverted to Philadelphia, and had to kinda sit around. And, they wouldn't let us off the plane 41:00'cause there were rifles in the belly of the plane, which was really weird to us because we were in uniform. We thought, like, well we seem like we're a safe bunch of people, so we had to wait there. And, then there was like demobilization, you know maybe, again, I'm kinda all blurry. I would say at least a week, where they ask you questions and ask about your tour. How many explosions you saw or if you saw causalities. And, try to get an assessment on any trauma, or any injuries that you had. You want to document all this, that way ten years later, if you're injured, you can go back. So, I did that. Everybody just wanted to go home. So, I think, everybody just told them as much as they could to get out. There's an urgency to get home. And, I wanna say it was very brief, a week or two. We were released for maybe six months. We didn't have to show up for drill or anything. I went back, eventually got back into school, and finished out my enlistment with 42:00the National Guard. By that time, when you get demobilized, you go from federal back to state. So, I finished out my agreement. At the time, this was 2005, so 2006, I was officially done with like the six year part of it, then I had two years, again, inactive, but I was ready to be done by that point.

Interviewer: And, you then went back, after Iraq you returned to Lock Haven and finished your undergraduate degree.

Evan: That's correct, yeah. I don't know exactly. I wanna say I probably started back up like the spring of 2005, or the summer of 2005. I think I took a summer course to ease back into it. And, then went back to full-time in the Fall of 2005. And, then two years later, I think it was two years, I graduated in 2007, with my Education English degree, and found a job teaching.

Interviewer: Can you talk about what it was like and whether it struck you at the time, as being an issue of you having served and deployed to Iraq, you're not too long afterwards back finishing your undergraduate degree, going to classes, living among people, I guess most of whom where not listed in the military, what is what like, the difference between the two lives and how, perhaps, your classmates did or did not see you as being different? Was there much interest or recognition of your military service, as you were integrating back into college 44:00life and civilian life.

Evan: Yeah, I think, I was fortunate ultimately that I had it as easy as possible, an easy transition, back to civilian life. You know, I think my unit was really supportive. I think the university, Lock Haven University, was extremely supportive. I knew professors there that I had like a personal relationship with, and they were very welcoming and encouraged me. I know when I came home once, at leave, before I was finished, I came home at leave and then went to an event at the university, and I not for me at all, but it was for something else, but then they recognized me while I was there, which again was just nice that there was a support there and a recognition of what was going on. 45:00Because as you say, it's completely night and day, these two different worlds. So, I think I had really wonderful support being brought back into to kind of a civilian lifestyle. Especially now, being a civilian for so long, I feel so far removed from what's going on, maybe in Afghanistan, for instance, that there is such a disconnect between the civilian population and the military, on a day to day basis, that I think the transition was as good as possible.

Interviewer: What about from a broader perspective? It's very good news to hear that your transition went about as well as it could be expected to. From a perspective of looking at how the United States decides who's going to serve in the military, serve and fight in its 46:00wars, what about this extreme disconnect that you mentioned and so many people talk about between these two wars, Afghanistan and Iraq, overseas and the apparent lack of difference those efforts make among people's lives here, at home?

Evan: Yeah, I think it's really troubling. I believe, President Bush at the time, after 9/11 said you wanna support the country, go shopping. I believe that, basically, was we need to help the economy along, that's your job. And, it's just complete obviousness to the wars. We cut taxes, during the wars. Maybe the first time, we've ever fought two wars and cut taxes at the same time. So, there was an explicit effort to divorce civilians from the reality of war. Besides, maybe some nightly news, maybe family's, of course, that lost loved 47:00ones, but I think as whole, for a national experience, we've been very insulated. Afghanistan is the longest war in our history and it doesn't affect me on a day to day basis. Again, I came here to work today, it doesn't affect me at all. So, I think we're so war removed, and that's really a danger in that. When the civilian population isn't actively invested in what's going on overseas. There's no check on foreign policy, or what I would consider, perhaps, not even I consider, I think, as history has shown now, for the Iraq war, reckless foreign policy. There was no weapons of mass destruction. And, the public, again, seem so divorced from that. And, perhaps, part of that is a willful ignorance that there's a distrust or a lack of faith in overseas policy. That it's not for America's interest, it's for other 48:00interests, whether it's corporate interest or oil interest, for instance. Geo-political interest for Iraq.

Interviewer: Do you think that that problem might be alleviated to some extent with a draft? Would there be a sense of equity in perhaps a closer sense of citizen's responsibility to the wars United States enters, if there was a more even contribution made among young American 49:00men and women, to those war efforts.

Evan: Well, I think there's a draft already. I think, you know poverty draft. We are certainly targeting specific individuals to go to the military. And again, I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that, it really benefited me to go to the military and pay for my college. That was a form, I guess, of a poverty draft. But, I think there needs to be an awareness of that, of who we're targeting, on both sides. These individuals have to know why they are being targeted. And, I think, at the least, there should be an acknowledgment or policy where, if we're going to go to war, there need to be sacrifices across the board. That we're going to raise taxes. We're going to pay for these wars. Because if not, we see the effects of this. We let our debts burgeon, so we're cutting other things, like education or other budgetary issues. So, I think there should be a more direct link between funding and cavalier military expeditions. I would hesitate 50:00for maybe a full out draft, just because... I guess that's one way to solve it. I mean it would solve reckless foreign policy, but of course it's a concern 'cause even when there was a draft for Vietnam, there were lots of waivers where many people were able to still insulate themselves and avoid going overseas and serving. So, I'm just skeptical of that, if the same were to happen again, that the individuals with the right connections would avoid service. But, it's a major concern. I teach composition course, my students are roughly 18. They may have been five, right, when we went to war with Afghanistan, approximately, maybe six? So they know war, I mean this is all they know, and yet they're so insulated from war. So, now it becomes naturalized. We're just constantly in a state of war. Longest war, and again, it just is a reality that they've been brought up in, they came to consciousness in warfare. And now, this has become the standard. That's really kinda terrifying.

Interviewer: As you've said, you are now pursuing a PhD at Lehigh in English Literature, with an emphasis on Modern American Literature. And, you've had occasion, I know, to read a good amount of war literature from this country, that is articles and books of soldiers and others who account for their experience in battle and in war, and talk about issues of United States engaging in war making. Is there... It's a big question, Evan, of no pass or fail, but is there a particular piece of literature, or figure, that stands out that might be 52:00worth mentioning in this context?

Evan: Yeah, there's so many. If I had to pick one, I always return to Tim O'Brien. I know that's such a canonical text now when it comes to war writing, but that book just spoke to me.

Interviewer: The Things They Carried.

Evan: The Things They Carried, specifically, and I've read Going After Cacciato, now too, and I think that is a wonderful text, but specifically The Things They Carried. I think I read that during my deployment, a friend sent that to me. What O'Brien does, there, and I think, a powerful text specifically about the moral courage of not going to war. He says we went to war because we were too cowardly not to go to war. And, I think that's an important message that we should sharing with young individuals, that war is not courageous, that maybe 53:00alternatives to war, or preventing war is more courageous and more difficult.

Interviewer: That is such a well known book, and it is encouraging that it's reaching young people, I think, not just people who study Modern American Literature, but it's become part of American culture. Perhaps, in a way that a generation, or two, ago. Stephen Crane's Red Badge of Courage was so well known, and studied and read in middle school, or high school. There does seem to be this steady American tradition, sometimes attached to what it means to be a man, an American man that goes to the idea of duty. Duty in battle, in particular. 54:00One well-known expression of this sensibility is the Civil War Veteran, Oliver Wendall Holmes, Jr's speech, The Soldier's Faith. And, I wondered if I could just read a passage from that speech and have you comment on it, as you see fit, as a Veteran of the Iraq war, as an American citizen, as a PhD candidate in English Literature. This is the man who'd become the Justice of the United States Supreme Court 55:00speaking in the late 1890s, I believe, and talking about the sense of duty that he felt, as a soldier. I do not know what is true. I do not know the meaning of the universe. But, in the midst of doubt, in the collapse of creeds, there's one thing I do not doubt and that is that the faith is true and adorable, which leads a soldier to throw away his life in obedience to a blindly accepted duty, in a cause which he little understands, in a plan or campaign of which he has no notion. Under tactics which he does not see the use.

Evan: Yeah, I think unfortunately Holmes is on to something. I think he is really accurate with what he's highlighting. There's a reason 56:00why we keep going to war. And, there's a reason that we like war literature, and we like the experience of war to some extent. That there is something appealing about it. There is something certain about it. We watch war movies and we can see the genuine love, but it's all simplified between soldiers, right, or the self sacrifice for soldiers. All the noise kind of disappears and there's something beautiful about that. However, that being said, I take issue with his term adorable. Even though, I just said beautiful, I think... You know that's troubling a little bit, that, you know... I don't know if adorable is the right word to describe 18 year olds, 19 year olds blindly going into combat. Again, I think he's right that there's an essence there, that is something that is reassuring in times that are really, I 57:00think, unstable, but I think this idea that it's adorable, that it's something that we should try to cultivate. I just don't agree with that. I think that grandeur, or that romanticized version of this soldier's action is why many people join. And again, it goes back to me looking up to my uncles, and kind of romanticizing them as kinda these military figures, and something that I wanted to become. There are places for that, and certainly I am proud of my experience, but I think that there's a danger to that. And, there's a recklessness, and I think we have a responsibility to caution against kinda recklessly engaging in military wars.

Interviewer: There's a tension that comes out in your comments. There is obviously within the military a necessary sense of following 58:00orders, of submitting to authority, to rank, to do as you are commanded, and yet one, at least, old tradition and ideal in American history, American military history, is that of the citizen soldier. That those people asked to bare the brunt of the duty in wars are our civilians first, our citizens who have other work and other parts of their lives, and who have a rounded sense of what their country is doing and how their action within a battle or war might contribute to that larger national goal. And, Holmes' point about blindly 59:00following, blindly.

Evan: Yeah, I think there's a forfeiture there of our civic responsibility. That's a nice way that you put it, but I think blind faith, is in some ways too easy. There should be some questioning. Obviously the military wants obedience, homage, obligation, discipline, but I think the dichotomy you present there of the civilian soldier, I think that's the job of civilians back home, of making sure it's not blind, which speaks to the larger issue you raised earlier about the disconnect. But, if civilians aren't overseeing it, if they're removed from the experience, there's nothing to prevent just blind duty and blind faith in the military mission, which, again, I would argue that