Konrad Nied

Konrad: I was born in Niskayuna, New York. It's in upstate New York in the Adirondacks. I had a great time there. There's tons of outdoor stuff to do there. Unfortunately my dad lost his job at some engineering company. And luckily enough, he had his contacts here at Lehigh 'cause he went to graduate school here. And so we moved to Easton, Pennsylvania, which is just down the road. And from eighth grade onward, I basically grew up there. So I consider that my real home because I've been there longer now at this point in my life. And my parents still live there, so yeah.

Interviewer: So you had one year of middle school in Easton and then you went to Easton Area High School?

Konrad: Correct.

Interviewer: When did you graduate?

Konrad: I graduated in 2000.

Interviewer: What was high school like in Easton?

Konrad: It was actually kind of interesting 'cause most kids don't have to go through that transition. Like especially right at that 1:00critical junction. Like eight grade is like right when you know you start going to high school and you start doing different things. And it was actually kind of good because it was like a fresh start. Like I could just kind of make my own new friends and you know just have a clean slate. So in one sense I think that set me up for future things in life because it made it so I knew what a transition was like and like how to deal with it and like also be social with people because you're forced to. I mean, otherwise you're just kind like hanging there. So I loved going to Easton. I had a great time there. And we have good high school football rivalry, the oldest high school football rivalry with Phillipsburg. So that was fun.

Interviewer: Did you play football?

Konrad: I didn't, no. I played varsity tennis for Easton and then that was it.

Interviewer: Yeah they play the game on Thanksgiving Day don't they?

Konrad: Yep, yep.

Interviewer: That's an amazing tradition. That's cool. So you graduated in spring of 2000. And then what happened?

Konrad: I got into the University of Delaware and I went there in the fall. And I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I was majoring in business administration and the first semester was pretty rocky because I basically just partied all the time and didn't really care about academics. So I went on probation after the first semester. And then the second semester I came back and I tried but again I kind of fell into the partying and all that. So in the end I ended up leaving Delaware after the spring semester. So that was in 2001 I guess. So then, that summer I kind of did a lot of soul searching. I didn't know what I really wanted to do. My uncle offered me a job in Florida. I kind of felt like I wanted to keep going to school but I needed to be more serious about it. So I started going to North Hampton Community College just to try and like take a whole bunch of courses and figure out what I wanted to do. And I did well there. So I did that in the 3:00fall. I started in the fall. And then 9/11 kind of happened. So I actually remember the day it happened 'cause I was getting up for class and my mom told me something was going on. And then she told me that classes had been canceled over there. And I just remember driving. Like I was halfway there when I got the call from my mom. I remember like hearing all the stuff on the radio and it just really, really bothered me. So it was kind of in my head from that point onward. And like, I don't know. It unsettled me and it made me like angry and kind of like pissed off that it happened. 'Cause I knew people who worked in New York, like people I worked with. So it really hit me. So I was going to North Hampton. And then I'm trying to remember when I got a call. I think maybe in like January or February, the recruiters at 4:00Easton just called me up randomly. I wasn't seeking it out or anything. Honestly, I was still perfectly content to go to school. But they called me up and then they just kind of like started to slowly sell me on the idea. In retrospect it was kind of like them, they were good salesmen. I don't know how else to say it. They kind of like sell it to you gradually. They're not like you must sign up right now or anything like that. They're just like well why don't you just come over and we'll talk about this. So then you go and talk to them and they show you all these cool jobs and they show you like the glamorous aspects of it. And they don't show the fact that you know you're gonna probably deploy, or you know, you're gonna have to do all these other things that aren't so nice. So yeah, I just met with them a whole bunch of times in between January and I guess May. And they actually kind of tricked me. The final thing that you have to do. There's two 5:00major things you have to do before you can actually enlist. One is you have to take what's called the ASVAB which is a placement test so that they can determine what job you can get. And I aced that, obviously. I mean it was easy type questions. If you'd gone through high school, you can get a good grade on it. So I basically was eligible for any job I wanted. And the second thing you have to do is you have to go to Harrisburg which is where the MEPS station is where they process you. And they didn't tell me. They told me I was going to pick my job and that was it. They didn't tell me I was gonna sign paperwork or anything that day. And I was still like 50/50 on the fence. Like I didn't know if I wanted to do it. And I didn't know about the time commitment. 'Cause depending on your job, your time commitment can be like anywhere from two to eight years. And I just didn't know any of that stuff yet. They didn't discuss like timelines with me or jobs or anything like that. So I show up at Harrisburg and they basically sit me in a room. They tell me what jobs have class dates that would work 6:00for me. And like they narrowed it down for me. Initially what I really wanted to do was I wanted to be in the infantry, crazily enough. I also wanted to be a tanker for whatever reason. I wanted to be military intelligence. And then like the last one on my choice list was actually satellite communications. All the ones before satellite communications had class dates that were like too far in advance. So I basically ended up getting that job. Luckily enough it worked out. That was probably a good job for me. And you know it probably in retrospect was the thing that kept me from ending up going to Iraq or Afghanistan. You know, part of me kind of wishes I'd experienced that and like gone, but the other part of me realizes that there's like massive danger inherent with going. So I'm kind of conflicted on whether or not I should have gone or not or picked a different job. So yeah, I picked my job and then they take me into another room and they swear 7:00us in. It's like I didn't, at that point, what are you gonna say no? You're in a room with like 20 other people. You have your arm raised. So yeah, they kind of tricked me on that. And yeah, my ship out date was in July. So I had like a month or two before I had to really go out.

Interviewer: To go back to September 11th, 2011, you said that that was such a key moment. First of all, do you remember, you were in your car, do you remember? So many of us went, planted themself in front of a TV. Do you know what TV you went to?

Konrad: Yeah as soon as my mom called me I went right home and then basically just watched the whole thing unfold. Like I saw the second plane hit the building. And then like the things afterwards, I remember like the next month just driving to school every day and hearing 8:00all the songs on the radio and everybody like calling in. And it just, yeah.

Interviewer: You got caught up in that?

Konrad: Yeah.

Interviewer: And amongst the emotions that you had, was anger included?

Konrad: Sure.

Interviewer: At whom, would you say?

Konrad: The people who did it, but probably in general because of the way, the way the information was coming out, I'd probably say the Middle East in general. Just because we knew the general area where it was coming from. And just to generalize it, I feel that most people thought the same. But definitely the people who planned it and like kind of the government a little bit too. Why was this able to happen? People with box cutters are able to hijack a plane? I mean, it didn't make sense.

Interviewer: So by the time that you went to Harrisburg and raised your hand and enlisted, you knew that the United States was mobilizing 9:00to make war against Iraq.

Konrad: Yeah.

Interviewer: The Afghanistan war had already...

Konrad: Iraq kicked off when I was in school for my job. Yeah, but I knew Afghanistan. I mean we all suspected Iraq was down the road maybe. But I knew Afghanistan was coming for sure.

Interviewer: And in general terms, the prospect of the United States engaging in a war against Iraq again was all right with you.

Konrad: Yeah.

Interviewer: I mean it was just not inconsistent with how you felt.

Konrad: At that point, yeah. I was fine with it. I really, to be honest, I really didn't even think about like getting injured, or getting shot, or anything like that. My mentality was that I just wanted to go and do something. I wanted to have an impact. In retrospect it's 10:00kind of like stupid. 'Cause you know you should rationalize and think about these things, but I didn't. I just kind of made the decision I guess.

Interviewer: But you know to go back to our class last month, that's exactly the model of a citizen soldier in a sense isn't it, I mean that the United States and all countries want, especially young men to be ready to sacrifice for the country. So you wanted to be in the infantry or a tanker first, in the middle of it as much as you could, right?

Konrad: Yeah, and my parents were the ones who actually talked me out of that. And going back, they were really leery about the whole thing. And during the whole process when I was like going and meeting with the recruiters, the recruiters actually asked me. They're like, 11:00do you want us to come talk to your parents 'cause they don't seem like they're sold on it? I'm like, all right. So it was kind of like, I mean I could almost equate it to like bringing your girlfriend to meet your parents. It's just kind of funny. 'Cause like they come to your house and they're dressed up in like their dress uniforms and they have a sit down and they just like lay everything out with your parents. And it's very strange to say the least. But I mean, they convinced my parents too, so.

Interviewer: Was your dad in the service?

Konrad: He wasn't, no.

Interviewer: Other family members?

Konrad: My uncle was in like the Merchant Marine in World War II. But other than that, no.

Interviewer: So after Harrisburg, and after signing up for satellite communications, you go to basic training?

Konrad: Yeah.

Interviewer: Where?

Konrad: I went at Fort Benning, Georgia. So not the best place in the middle of the summer, but.

Interviewer: What was it like?

Konrad: So I showed up. It's almost like a factory. Like it's very systematic how they do things. They have a reception battalion which 12:00basically you go to when you first show up. Because they don't have room to send you straight into basic training. They need to like basically wait. Then you need to get processed with all your paperwork. You need to get all your immunizations. You need to get all your stuff issued to you. They need to like set up your pay. They do all this stuff at reception while you're waiting. And then when a class becomes available, you get slotted and sent over there. So it's kind of, you're kind of like in the in between point right there. They've already shaved your head. They've already gotten your uniforms. You're scared, but you're not getting harassed yet, necessarily. There's drill sergeants there but they're not messing with you. And it's kind of like basic training light. But I remember like the first day we showed up at even reception battalion. They had us stand in a line at the chow hall to wait to eat. And like everybody was so afraid. 13:00'Cause nobody knew what was going on. Nobody knew what to expect or anything. So we're all standing there with our shaved heads and in our uniforms. And everybody's just standing in a straight line not saying a word. Because nobody wants to be that person who stands out and gets harassed. But we found out later that that didn't really matter at reception battalion. So that was the first part of it. And then I think I was there about a week maybe, not too long. And then they bus you over to the basic training units. And the first day was pretty rough. You get off the bus and the drill sergeants just run up to you and start screaming at you. They tell you to do stuff and you do it and they say you did it wrong, then they make you do it again, and then they're just screaming at you the whole time. And then of course, they're smoking you, which is like making you do pushups and all sorts of stuff. So you're miserable that whole day. It's basically you doing pushups, or sit ups, or something all day and getting yelled at. And at that point I really didn't want to be there anymore 14:00obviously. I mean it gradually got better. By the end it was pretty normal. Like you knew what to expect. You knew if you messed up you were gonna get an earful. But if you did the right thing then you probably weren't gonna get blasted very much. And you knew you had to help out the people, the rest of the people in your platoon. Because if they messed up, then everybody was gonna get punished. So it was almost like you know Full Metal Jacket with Gomer Pyle. When he messed up, like they'd all get punished. So it's definitely like that. And yeah.

Interviewer: Did you have a particular unit?

Konrad: Yeah, they're actually units. They're old infantry units usually or Cav units or something like that. And I was in, I think I was in 1st battalion of the 58th infantry. So that was the one I was in. But there was multiple. Like each battalion had four platoons. And 15:00then yeah. And then there was more battalions for each.

Interviewer: Were women in these battalions and platoons as well?

Konrad: Fort Benning is no women. So it was all men there, for people who are actually in there. Now the people who work there and do their normal jobs, there's women there for that. Like you know cooks, and nurses, and stuff like that. But we're not allowed to talk to them really. We just get good from them or get medical attention. All the women who enlist, I think they're all, maybe not all, but the majority of them are sent to Fort Sam, or not Fort Sam Houston, Fort Jackson in South Carolina.

Interviewer: Was basic training physically taxing once you got past the initial being called a scum-sucking worm and things like that? The 16:00physical part, the running, the whatever tests you had to take and the like. Was it?

Konrad: It definitely beat me up. I think I went. When I left for basic training, I think I was maybe like 165, 170. And then by the end when my parents saw me, they didn't recognize me 'cause I was so skinny. I think I was maybe like 135, 140. So I mean it was pretty significant. I was almost like a prison inmate, just skin and bones. It was rough. And there were points where I actually broke down. When we were doing the rifle range stuff, I guess I just broke down physically because I ran like 104, 105 temperature, and I had to go to the sick call station. And they saw my temperature and they're like you're going to the infirmary. There's no way. So I go back to the drill 17:00sergeant, 'cause I have to show him the slip so that he can get me moved over to the infirmary for however many days. And he's like, you're faking it aren't you? I'm like, no drill sergeant. And he's like, well I'm not gonna send you there. I'm like, okay drill sergeant, whatever you think's best. And then he's like sitting there looking at me. He's thinking about it for a minute. And then he's like I'm gonna send you anyway 'cause I don't want it on me in case something happens. But then yeah, they send me to the infirmary. And that was a nice little break. It was like three days I think. We could watch movies. And I remember watching Blackhawk Down for the first time there actually. And we could eat better food. And drill sergeants weren't allowed in there to mess with us. The only thing that sucked when I was there is they kept making me take cold showers 'cause my fever was so high. But that probably helped me get through it because I could recover a little bit and then push through. 'Cause I think that was like right at the midpoint. That was like week five, week six. And then I could push through for like the next three weeks and get through it.

Interviewer: So eight weeks of basic training and then where do you go?

Konrad: We graduated from basic training in September. And then basically they shipped us via bus to Augusta, Georgia, the people who were going to the Signal Corps anyway. And it's called Fort Gordon. That's where they do all the signal stuff. I've been there. I went there so many times when I was in. I think I went for my initial schooling. I went back for additional schooling after I got my second job. And then I had to go back one other time basically because I got promoted to E-6. 'Cause you have to go through a two month course to be a supervisor. So I had to go basically three times. And they were all extended periods. I think the longest was when I got my second job which was four months. So I was probably in Fort Gordon for about a year in the end. So I mean I spent a significant amount of time there. 19:00But that was kind of a trip too because it's not, you go from basically being treated like a child at basic training. And then you move up to, it's called AIT, Advanced Individual Training. You show up there and it's kind of like you're a high school kid. Like you're given some more privileges but you have like a curfew, and there's still drill sergeants there. They still treat you like kids 'cause they know you're gonna do stupid stuff. And yeah, so it's like going to high school and going to school basically.

Interviewer: Do you have free time?

Konrad: We did. The way it worked is there was phases. So like when you first showed up you were like a phase four, which meant that you basically couldn't do anything. You could be in your room. You could like read. You could do stuff like that. But you weren't allowed to have like extra stuff like a TV. You couldn't go out. You couldn't do any of that. Then once you passed your PT test and you did a couple other things, you got moved up to phase five and phase five plus where basically you could, you know, you could go out on the weekends. You could go out at night as long as you were back by a certain time. You could go to the PX. You could go out to eat. Stuff like that. So 20:00basically you were allowed to do certain things. I mean you couldn't just go whenever you wanted. You had to basically sign out and stuff like that, but treated a little bit better.

Interviewer: So you were there for some time. When did you, and where did you actually get the training for satellite communications?

Konrad: That was at Fort Gordon, yeah.

Interviewer: And how long was that training itself?

Konrad: It was from the end of September until March. So yeah, like six months I guess, five, six months.

Interviewer: What did you learn?

Konrad: Pretty much signals, theory, basic electronics. Basically they just give you the background so that you can learn your actual job 21:00when you get to your unit. They teach you how to operate some equipment. But the majority of the equipment that you're gonna use when you get to your unit is gonna be different. 'Cause they're using older stuff. So a lot of it was electronics basically. Like how to use test equipment, how to basically power on stuff, how to take readings, how to use an O-scope, stuff like that.

Interviewer: A what?

Konrad: Oscilloscope. Like basically to see like what the electronic... Basically you can look at a signal. So it was a lot of that kind of stuff. Basically theory and stuff like that. So you had a background knowledge when you get to your unit that you can use when they show you stuff.

Interviewer: I need to ask you to back up a step. We know of the Signal Corps. But when you say to look at a signal, what kind of signal are we talking about? What's the basic unit that you're describing?

Konrad: Right, well, with any communications there's two parts to it. There's data and then there's timing. So they basically get 22:00interleaved together when you send something somewhere. And the way that you can process that signal is they use the timing to make sure that the signal's in the right place. So basically when you have like an oscilloscope, you can look at like the data stream, and then you can look at the timing stream, and then you can separate them. By looking at that data stream, you can tell what like the data rate is and you can check frequencies and stuff like that.

Interviewer: And the content of these signals, once your training is done and you're doing your job, is different orders and just military communication between arms of the Army.

Konrad: When I was in my first unit, I did a different job than my last two units. And that's definitely correct for the first unit I was in. It was basically a relay station in Germany. It was a massive relay station. We had massive 30 foot antennas that were processing 23:00signals from Iraq, Afghanistan, and then relaying them to stateside or wherever else. England, a multitude of places. And the stuff that we could have could range from anywhere from morale calls to, I'm trying to think what else. JWICS, there's a lot of backup nuclear stuff that goes over that kind of stuff. Because that medium is very hard to disrupt. So they put a lot of the high priority stuff, like the missile warning stuff, and stuff like that. But then there's also like Predator feeds and stuff like that that go over that too. So those probably go directly to the Pentagon when they get back to the states.

Interviewer: So after this training, you were assigned to your first unit. What was that?

Konrad: It was 181st Signal Company in Landstuhl, Germany.

Interviewer: Where in Germany?

Konrad: Landstuhl.

Interviewer: Landstuhl.

Konrad: Yep.

Interviewer: Where is that in Germany?

Konrad: It's about an hour south of Frankfurt, southwest of Frankfurt. It's near Saarbrucken. It's actually right next to Ramstein Air Base and it actually houses. It's not a big base there 'cause the only thing that's really there is the satellite communications facility and then the hospital. But that hospital is like the biggest hospital outside of the US for the military. So that was a big deal because I mean, that's where everybody from Iraq and Afghanistan would go initially if they got injured.

Interviewer: So by the time you get to Germany the Iraq War has started.

Konrad: Yeah, correct. It started, I don't remember the exact month. But it was near the end of my AIT. We basically knew what was going on. We knew some of us were probably gonna go because they pulled people out of class to expedite them through class so that they could get them out to units before it kicked off. 'Cause they knew it was about to happen. And then once war was declared, we didn't go in right 25:00away. So they were trying to rush people through to get 'em down to like Qatar and places like that so they could start doing their jobs for an actual unit 'cause they needed people. But for the job I was in, I wasn't one of those people because I got, I should step back. For satellite communications, there's two tracks for it. And you don't get to pick. It's just whatever the Army decides. And one's strategic and one's tactical. If you're tactical, you're in a van with an element in the field. Like probably not a company or something like that. You're not like rolling around behind like people who are in a firefight. But you're at a FOB or you're at a base somewhere providing support for those people. And then if you're strategic, you go to one of the larger relay stations usually. And then you do the in between communication for those people to the people in the states or wherever they need to go. And I got tracked with strategic. There were only 26:00two of us. And our class I think had 20. So that just shows that they knew what was coming. Because they tasked 18 other people with going to field units. So I just got lucky. It was me and one other guy. We just lucked out. And yeah, they actually back-filled our class for strategic with all Navy and Air Force people because they were sending all the Army people to field units.

Interviewer: So at the time, you felt lucky. You were happy that you were assigned to strategic and not tactical.

Konrad: At the time, no. I was kind of disappointed. I had already taken a step back doing satellite communications and I kinda wanted to like deploy and go to the field and stuff like that. But after I got to my unit, yeah I was definitely pleasantly surprised at strategic work.

Interviewer: Yeah, what was 181st Signal Corps?

Konrad: Basically we just did end-to-end communication with the users in Iraq and then to the states. But it was normal shift work. We'd 27:00switch from days to mids. We worked 12 hour shifts. We worked a lot, but we were also living in Germany. So I mean, it was definitely a better experience than being sent somewhere else.

Interviewer: And were you able to go out into town during your 12 hours off? It sounds fairly pleasant.

Konrad: Yeah, there wasn't security concerns really when I was there at all. I mean there would be occasional demonstrations at Ramstein Air Base. But I mean, for the most part, I think the Germans recognized that the military community in that area, which is significant. It's the biggest military community outside the US. It's like 40,000 in a small area. They basically support that whole community 'cause they provide money for that community. So, I think they realized that you know, it's not bad having the Americans here because they're 28:00generally not causing problems. But then I guess after I left, other elements came in from other countries and started causing problems there. But yeah, we went out at night. No curfew at that point 'cause we were actually in a normal unit so they treat you like a normal person to a certain extent. And you could travel, you could get leave. You could go home, yeah.

Interviewer: Did you feel connected to the wars though? I mean obviously the content of your work, the 12 hour shifts on, you are intricately linked to the stuff of the war.

Konrad: Yeah, I actually remember one, I mean, you're completely correct. We'd interact with these people on like a daily basis. We'd have 29:00to call in reports with them every eight hours. So we'd have to like talk to them physically on the phone and get like certain information about how their signal is doing, if they had the right power level going to them, if there was degradation in what they were getting. So we talked to them. And you know it'd be weird, I'd call sometimes and I'd talk to somebody I knew from AIT. And they'd ask me how it was there. I didn't know what to tell 'em because they're in Iraq or Afghanistan. It's not fair really that I got lucky and they got sent somewhere not so good. But I remember like, it's actually happened a couple times throughout the time I was in 'cause those reports basically happened at all the jobs I was at in different varying degrees. But, you'd call up somebody 'cause they didn't send their report in. And then they wouldn't answer their phone, they wouldn't answer their phone. And then you'd call. You call like later and you'd start yelling at 'em, chewing 'em out or whatever 'cause you think it's a big deal that these reports. You know, you need to make a point that 30:00they need to make sure that these reports get in. And they're like, they'd say something like we were under mortar fire or something like that. And you're like oh my God. I can't believe I just yelled at this guy for this. It's so stupid. So it's definitely different. You just do your job I guess.

Interviewer: What was your main source of information about the progress of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars? I mean did you read newspapers? Are there special Army media that inform you in detail about how things are progressing, about an insurgency?

Konrad: To a certain extent. Obviously we had Stars and Stripes in Germany. So we'd get information from there but I mean it's not gonna be completely reliable 'cause it's made by the Army. But we also had like CNN and stuff like that we'd watch. And then, because of my job we 31:00had security clearances so we could get access to secure internet. And from that we could read like other stuff that wasn't more widely known about operations that were going on in that area.

Interviewer: How high was your security clearance?

Konrad: When I was in my first job it was only a secret security clearance. And then when I went to go get my training for my new job, which was basically, I had the same MOS, which is your occupation specialty. But I got tasked with Additional Skill Identifier, which basically jumped my clearance level up to a top secret. And that's what I held until a month ago I guess is when it expired, so.

Interviewer: So that then brings us to the next unit. And you said you had the same MOS. What was the actual job?

Konrad: The first job I did we did like the end-to-end communication. We didn't really get hung up on like dealing with the satellite 32:00necessarily. Basically we'd just send the stuff up to the satellite, it'd come down to wherever, or it'd come down to us and we'd send it up somewhere else, whatever. The second job I got was basically payload control. So basically, we'd watch live telemetry on the satellite and we'd do power control on the satellite. Like we'd tell the end-to-end users whether or not they need to raise or lower power. If we saw people come up who weren't supposed to be there, that's called an unauthorized access. And we'd have to like try and figure out who it was and get them to go away. And then if something did happen on the satellite, we'd actually send commands up to it to try and fix it. Now, we didn't fly it around or anything like that. It's kind of interesting how it's setup. The Air Force and the Army kind of coincide in that realm. The Air Force has certain responsibilities in dealing with like the moving it around and doing some other stuff. And then the Army's 33:00concerned with like just the payload and making sure that the users are satisfied. So that's pretty much what I did the next you know five years.

Interviewer: From the same base in Germany?

Konrad: For the first two years, yes. I basically moved right across the street. And that was just like basically how it worked out. The unit that I was moving to basically had a lot of pull because they just did. They weren't part of like the traditional Army hierarchy. So they could basically get what they wanted. So when they tasked me with the school, I got an email from the people, the civilians who were working for that unit and they basically asked me where I wanted to go. They gave me like a list of choices and they said pick three and we'll try and get you one of 'em. And I liked Germany at the time so I was like I'll stay in Germany if you guys want to let me. It'll save 34:00you guys money 'cause you won't have to move me. So that's where they sent me.

Interviewer: What satellite is this by the way?

Konrad: It's called the DSCS-3. Defense Satellite Communication System. And it's X-band. So it's like high frequency. It's like 7.9. 7.8 to 8.1 gigahertz.

Interviewer: How long has it been up?

Konrad: The first one got launched in the '80s. So they're actually transitioning away from it 'cause they're slowly starting to get to the end of their timeline. And they just actually put up new satellites like right as I was getting out. And they're like multi band. But it's still part of our job. So they're basically getting extra stuff that they have to do.

Interviewer: So the first two of those five years were in Germany. What about the last three years?

Konrad: My initial enlistment contract was six years. So at about year five, roughly, I came into my reenlistment window. And I wasn't sure 35:00if I wanted to stay in. I didn't really do the work to like find an alternate plan because I was in Germany so I hadn't applied to schools or anything like that. I didn't have jobs lined up. Although, I probably could have gotten jobs just because when you're in, you network with the civilians you work with. So I mean, that probably wouldn't have been an issue. But more importantly, I also didn't want to have to come back in as a reservist. Until you meet your eight year requirement, they can call you back and then make you do whatever they want. So like they could have made me be like a gas pumper or a cook or something. I felt that it was better just to do the two years and choose a good place because I'd be able to choose because it's a reenlistment. So I reenlisted for Fort Detrick, Maryland, which is in Frederick, 36:00Maryland. Yeah, and then I spent the last two and change years there.

Interviewer: Doing the same kind of work of your job in Germany?

Konrad: Right, it's part of the same unit. It's just a different company.

Interviewer: What rank were you?

Konrad: When I left Germany, I was an E-5, which is a Sergeant. And then when I ETSed out of Maryland, and for the year prior to that, I was a Staff Sergeant, E-6. I basically went as high as I could in the traditional promotion system. If I'd stayed in like two more years, I probably could have got E-7. But that goes directly up to the Army, Department of the Army. They make those decisions.

Interviewer: What is E-7?

Konrad: Sergeant First Class.

Interviewer: I see. Did you consider staying past?

Konrad: I did. And a lot of people talked to me. Like my Lieutenant and obviously the retention people. They tried to sell me on going to 37:00Hawaii. And I considered it. I mean, you get to the point. I was at year eight, you know. At year 20, you get half pay for the rest of your life. You're already almost halfway there. It's tempting. But then I kind of took a look at what was going on. My sister had just gotten engaged and all my friends were getting jobs. They'd have lasting relationships with girls and stuff like that. It wasn't really feasible to do that when you were in 'cause you're always working, you're always doing something, you're always moving around. You can't really start a family. So I basically narrowed it down to two decisions. One was going back to school. And then the other one was I had a job offer lined up to work in Hawaii but for our civilian counterparts. And they were definitely gonna hire me. So at that point, when I had 38:00those two decisions in line, I basically wrote off staying in. And to be honest, like when you get, I think it's like three months out, the only way you can stay in is if like a General signs off on it. So it would have been a hassle if I'd wanted to. But then luckily I got into Lehigh. So that kind of made my decision for me.

Interviewer: Speaking of what your friends were doing as comparison between your life in the Army and others' experiences, what about people that you were in basic training with and in other training who did go to Iraq and Afghanistan? Are there examples of keeping in touch with them and bad things happening to them at all or?

Konrad: Nothing happened as far as I know to anybody that I knew in basic training. 'Cause you lose touch with a lot of the people in basic training. Now, people I went to AIT with, I think they're all fine. But I think that's because of the nature of our job. We're kind of 39:00restricted behind the lines and not really up in the combat zone to say. Now that's not to say that you can't get injured in our job. There's still mortar attacks and stuff like that. But I think for the most part, nobody I knew was directly injured. Now we had infantry guys who switched jobs and came to our job. And I worked with a lot of them. They were good guys. But you know, you talk to them about what happened and they, you saw the look in their eye like they were remembering. I remember this one guy, Blotter, he was in the infantry for like six years I think. And like he was talking about like seeing his friends get blown up. It was rough for him. He started getting a little teary eyed. So you kind of didn't want to. If they brought it up you'd talk about it but you kind of didn't want to bring it up to 40:00them because you didn't want them to like remember it, I guess. But then I mean like the whole time I was in Germany we got constant reminders of that too because we lived on the base with the medical base. So I mean like everything was in the hospital. Like the mail room was there, the Burger King was there, the Shoppette was there. You went to go get haircuts there and you'd walk by these guys coming back. You know they're in wheelchairs, they're missing limbs, and they got burns on their face. So I mean, you feel for 'em. You see it every day when you're there, so.

Interviewer: During the course of your enlistment, and it's considerable, did your attitude about September 11th and about the Afghanistan and Iraq wars evolve at all?

Konrad: Yeah. I think for 9/11, I still kind of feel the same, that it was really wrong. And you know, I don't understand why it happened. 41:00It should never have happened. But I think the handling of the wars was not handled correctly now. I think when I joined, I thought oh, whatever, they're right. We should go in and just take 'em out, whatever. But I mean, after their botched invasion of Afghanistan, Tora Bora, and just not getting the deal done, and then having a protracted war that's still going on to this day because of that. I mean that just shows the ineptitude of the decisions that were made. And then, Iraq I can see the benefits for the people. But you also have to look at all the civilian casualties that have happened while we were there, and all the military casualties that we've taken. And you gotta think is it worth it? I don't know. It's hard to say right now. Maybe 10 years down the road somebody could look back and say well maybe it was worth it 'cause this country's doing a lot better now than under Saddam. But it's hard to weigh it out right now to be honest. But I 42:00think like when I first joined, I wouldn't have had those thoughts. I mean I would have just been like, yeah the government's right. We should just go in and do whatever.

Interviewer: You mentioned the ineptitude involved in the Afghanistan war. That may be just as much or more political than military ineptitude in terms of what decisions were made. Moving towards wrapping this up, you have a very good position for evaluating the United States Army, you know, overall as an institution. Shifting gears a little bit but, whether one is for different wars or a complete pacifist or somewhere in between, a lot of people are very impressed with the US Army as an institution. Incredibly... well-coordinated, massive 43:00organization that in some ways at least, in terms of meritocracy, affirmative action even, is really quite progressive in terms of race, the history of integrating African Americans in the 1970s and beyond. Can you talk about that as how you size the Army up as a thing, as an entity?

Konrad: They definitely know how to get stuff done. It's like a well-oiled machine. Certain things happen at certain times and they get done no matter what. I guess it's just a track record. Like people know that they need to do these things and it gets done. I think some things, some things aren't handled as well as in the civilian world. Possibly with like the gays in the military and stuff like that. But 44:00like you said, when I was in, there'd be people of every kind of race, religion, creed, you know. And you'd be working right next to them and you wouldn't think a second thought about it. But they also make you go through quarterly classes for all this stuff. Sexual harassment, suicide prevention, all the racial stuff. So you kind of get ingrained with the fact that's not an issue. You're all the same. You're all in the Army. Why cause these divisions or anything like that? Yeah, they're definitely very efficient at how they do things. There's like a lot of checklists. There's a lot of SOPs, Standard Operating Procedures. And you're supposed to follow them by the book. So I think that's part of it that they just have an extremely efficient documentation on how to do everything. And it's like down to each minute step. And then people can just follow along and do it. 'Cause I mean not everybody is, I mean there's people who haven't even 45:00graduated high school really. I think they maybe got their GEDs. But when I took the ASVAB, there were people who got like 20s and 30s. So there are people who aren't as intelligent who are in but they still can get their jobs done.

Interviewer: Another big issue that goes to something that we were talking about in class. And that is this increasing use of remote, automated warfare, and killing. I'm just drawing a blank now. Unmanned airplanes.

Konrad: Predators.

Interviewer: Predator drones. And moving towards some sense of robotic army. And it seems to me your job sounds highly technical and 46:00challenging. It also touches on this, this point that I mean, part of US supremacy in warfare is its technology and communications. And I'm wondering if you want to comment about the direction things are going and the idea that in making war, the United States is able to do so more and more today and certainly tomorrow through technological supremacy that includes not really necessarily having human contact with the enemies that one kills. Is that a problem?

Konrad: I kind of think it is. I mean, to a certain extent. I think that right now, I mean like there's still people involved right now. I think once it gets to the point where there's no people involved, than it could be a big issue. Because I mean like, I mean like at least 47:00right now somebody's watching. So I mean like, while they're not doing the direct killing or whatever, they have to watch it. So they're still being forced to like basically know that they're the ones who are doing it, you know. But then, if somebody's just pushing a button and like putting a coordinate for like something to happen, you know, it's not as personal for them. They're just there, you know. They're like oh, well I'm not gonna see it, so it doesn't matter. So I mean like, when it gets to that point, I think it's gonna be a big issue. And even now, like we talked in class about this extensively. I mean it's still not as personal because you're watching it via screen. It's not like you're actually there doing it. And it just makes you think like how differently the wars we're fighting now are being fought compared to like you know Vietnam, Korea, World War II. I mean like, I just try and think, what would happen if we'd had that technology 48:00then? I don't even know. The wars would have been drastically different. You think that like people would, I don't even know.

Interviewer: So you spoke about how well ordered the US Army is and one's work and life within it. So you go from that to the hill at Lehigh. (laughing) That had to be a huge change.

Konrad: Yeah, it was interesting.

Interviewer: How did you do that?

Konrad: They make you go through some transition stuff. But it's mostly about finding a job and stuff like that. It was interesting. 'Cause like what happened was I had enough leave saved up. So basically I was in Maryland. And I got out, my official date when I was gonna get discharged was July. But because I think I had like a month of leave saved up.

Interviewer: July 10?

Konrad: Yeah. So then I think sometime in June, maybe like the 10th of June or somewhere around there, I started my terminal leave. So basically you out process and do everything before you go on your leave. So at that point I was essentially out. So I got out in June and then I basically just stuck around Maryland for like two weeks until my lease expired and then I came home. But it was definitely interesting going to that first Lehigh class and then that summer. 'Cause that was, I could grow out my hair, I could not shave. I could do what I wanted to. I could break the rules of what I had done the last eight years. And that was kind of liberating but also a little bit weird. Because I was like this isn't normal anymore. I didn't have to go do PT every day if I didn't want to. I didn't have to go run or whatever. Just interacting with the younger students at Lehigh was interesting too. But to be honest, that wasn't as big an issue as I thought it was gonna be, mostly because of the people I worked with in the Army. 'Cause I worked with 19 year olds, all the way up to 35 50:00year olds. So I mean it was, I think that helped me in that transition aspect. I can pretty much interact with any sort of person. You know, sometimes I may look at them and be like, especially like when my roommate's stumbling around drunk, I'm like come on dude, really. But then I have to realize he's like 20 years old and whatever.

Interviewer: And I hate to say that you're pushing 30.

Konrad: Yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Konrad: So it was definitely an interesting transition.

Interviewer: And is it ongoing?

Konrad: Yeah. It still is. And like I should preface this with, and it's kinda, you'll think this is funny too. So in the fall of this year, one of the fraternities was recruiting, Kai Fai, because all the members got kicked out last spring. So they recruited me. So that was another interesting aspect of the transition 'cause I went, in the fall I was living on campus at Broadhead. So that was the first 51:00interesting experience. And then I moved into the fraternity house in the spring. And that was insane. 'Cause you're up on the hill and everything goes on up there. So that was interesting. But I think the reason they recruited me was because you know, they'd have an older person to like kind of make sure that they didn't mess up again. And there was a live-in advisor living there too. But you know, it's different when it's one of your peers, somebody who's a student with you. And I think I can play down to their growth level a little bit if I need to. So that was interesting though.

Interviewer: So how was pledging a fraternity compared to basic training in the military? I know that when they almost hazing or they say they have.

Konrad: It was actually because of that that I joined. The situation that Kai Fai's in is they're not allowed to do any of that. And they 52:00only have a weekend to initiate people. So basically we didn't get any of that done to us. I mean, I've already been through it once so, I felt like I didn't need to do it again. And I honestly didn't want to let my grades slip or anything like that. And I knew it would happen if I decided to join a normal fraternity and try and go through that. So it was kind of like the optimal situation for me. I could get in a position of leadership and just basically go through the process and then have a group of brothers kind of like I did in the Army to hang out with and do stuff with. And then have networking down the road. So it just worked out. It was good timing I guess.

Interviewer: Did it strike you as odd, something we've talked about in class as well, the fact that so you're back here, you're on the hill, you're in history, and math classes, and next to 20-somethings or younger. And there's still a war going on in Afghanistan was 53:00quasi-won in Iraq I would call it. They don't act like that do they that their country is at war? I mean, I don't mean to put words in your mouth. But were you ever aware? Was it ever surprising to you the disparity between this huge monolith of US Army, devoted to among other things winning two land wars in the Middle East, and the billions of dollars that this country is spending for it and racking up incredible debts in doing so. And then Lehigh University.

Konrad: Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of the American public doesn't know. They probably know something's going on but they don't have a vested interest in it. When I got to Frederick, Maryland actually, it's a small installation. There's no other military around it really 54:00unless you go to DC. So I mean, like we'd be at work and then we'd have to go and get food or something like that. You know, we'd go to like Walmart or whatever. And there'd be people who would stop you and like ask you about stuff. And they had no clue what they were talking about and like you know, they'd thank you for your service but you kind of felt awkward at that because you know, you're in Frederick, Maryland, and you know there's people dying in Iraq. And why are you thanking me? I didn't do anything special. And then like it's kinda the same here at Lehigh. I feel that a lot of the students don't know what's going on really. Like I mean, they're just here to go to class, party, whatever. You know, that's just how it is I guess. Unless you turn on the 6:30 news, NBC news, you know you're not gonna know. I mean it's not something that's out in the forefront all the time, like it is if you were in the military. I mean when you're 55:00in the military you know if something's gonna happen because you have a vested interest in it. And going back to the thing with Frederick, Maryland, with like you know, some random person stopped. That's why I don't generally like, unless somebody asks me or there's a reason I need to say something to someone, or it will help discussion in the class, I don't bring up the fact that I'm in the military usually to most people. Because it's not that I'm not proud of what I did. It's just you know, I feel that to be thanked for that is kind of like wronging the people who are actually still out there doing it, like doing harder things than I had to do. Because I didn't deploy. So I mean it's weird for me, so.

Interviewer: Do you feel like you wear your service, that is that it goes with you? You're older than other undergraduates at Lehigh. But otherwise, do you feel like it in some way, at least figuratively speaking, is visible or that it's with you?

Konrad: Yeah, definitely. I mean it changed my life. Before, I was pretty much aimless, didn't know what I wanted to do, didn't have much dedication to doing work. You know, I didn't really care about anything. And then I kind of, I hate to say it, but they kind of broke down that person at basic training and then, you know, I was still a kid through the majority of the time I was in Germany. It wasn't until I got put into a supervisor position that I kind of grew up, to be honest. And yeah the last four years I've pretty much grown up a lot. I think the Army's made me a really good public speaker just because of the promotion process and the fact that you have to stand in front of people and recite things a specific way. And you know, I feel that it's definitely made me a better person just because of where I was before and what I am now. Now, you know, eight years is a long time to be in though. So I don't know. I'm generally happy with the way 57:00things have gone. But it still makes you wonder. I wish I knew what I knew now eight years ago. And then I could go to college and succeed then and then I'd be eight years back instead of 29. But it's what it is. Sometimes you have to go through those hard patches before you can grow up, make yourself better.

Interviewer: Do you want to add anything else?

Konrad: Just even in the brotherhood kind of thing, even like in the job I had. Like it was pretty awesome to work with the guys I worked with, like especially the last year. 'Cause I basically got to handpick my whole squad because we had like a, our platoon sergeant basically had a draft where all the squad leaders could go through and just choose who they wanted on their team. And I basically picked 58:00all the people I wanted. So I mean it's just awesome having a cohesive group that you like working with, and you guys have fun working together, and you get your jobs done, and you do really good at your job. And I feel that a lot of the places in the military are like that. When you get with a group of people, no matter what the job. You know you could be in an infantry unit, a tanker unit. You could be in Sat Com, you could be in whatever. If you get that cohesive unit then you can get stuff done like nothing else. And I feel that that's overlooked a lot in the civilian sector. Like people just go and do their own thing. They're out for their own interests. They don't look at like the team aspect. And I kinda feel that being in the military kind of builds that up a lot, especially the Marines and the Army because they're more frontline kinda type stuff.

Interviewer: It goes against the grain of that sort of American individualism. Strength in numbers. And clearly that's gotta stay with you.

Konrad: Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why I wanted to join the fraternity 'cause I kinda miss that. That was one of the reasons why I was thinking about staying in. I was like, I'm working with these, I love going to work everyday. It's fun. Why give this up to go to